quote:

Originally posted by SIGguy229:

quote:

Originally posted by David W:
Last I saw there was only 13,000 comments on the ATF page, that is pathetic to say the least

I just posted my comment and there were 48,354 comments as of 5 mins ago...and they update the numbers once a day.

There are now about 70,000 comments. Better, but still not enough considering that there are approximately 5 millions braces out there.

Keep those letters and comments coming. Contact everyone you can think of, The White House, your congressmen, the DOJ, everyone.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rlbuzz,

So now we wait for DOJ review? Or did they spank ATF and we are done for now?

It’s done unless they start over.

Don't be too quick to holster your Public Comment responses.

The proposal may have been withdrawn from the Federal Registry, but there are still a whole hell of a lot of questions and ambiguities remaining, and I'm fairly certain they will be back for another bite at the apple.

This was too easy and my Spidey Sense are tingling...any intel on why the feds withdrew the proposal?

Good news!

ATF Withdrew Its Notice About Pistol Braces

https://youtu.be/hB15Lw-iLp8

Keep your eyes wide open and watch your back because they may be planning an executive order on the issue next month once he is in.

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:
Keep your eyes wide open and watch your back because they may be planning an executive order on the issue next month once he is in.

I keep reading this stuff, and I have to wonder why people choose to live like this. One poster posted THE EXACT SAME THING In both threads. We just can’t breath, enjoy a win and enjoy the holidays.

Why?

Because frankly, it’s a dumb position to negotiate. We were PROMISED in these threads that da ebil ATF was already in bed with Obiden. And that you could comment if you want, but this is a “done deal” and the “cake is already baked” and other nonsense and conspiracy theories.

If any of that was remotely true, this would have not transpired. The process would have continued as quietly as possible, and Slow Joe would have just taken credit for this soon after his installation. But, no.

Now, on social media, people are warning this is a trap. And they’ll be back after January, despite that the ATF acting director just signed on for another year.

Enjoy a win. Stop with the silly conspiracy theories. This happens every time. When anyone dares to take a breath of fresh air, the “STAY VIGILANT” crowd must pop in to tell us it’s a trap.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:
Keep your eyes wide open and watch your back because they may be planning an executive order on the issue next month once he is in.

I keep reading this stuff, and I have to wonder why people choose to live like this. One poster posted THE EXACT SAME THING In both threads. We just can’t breath, enjoy a win and enjoy the holidays.

Why?

Because frankly, it’s a dumb position to negotiate. We were PROMISED in these threads that da ebil ATF was already in bed with Obiden. And that you could comment if you want, but this is a “done deal” and the “cake is already baked” and other nonsense and conspiracy theories.

If any of that was remotely true, this would have not transpired. The process would have continued as quietly as possible, and Slow Joe would have just taken credit for this soon after his installation. But, no.

Now, on social media, people are warning this is a trap. And they’ll be back after January, despite that the ATF acting director just signed on for another year.

Enjoy a win. Stop with the silly conspiracy theories. This happens every time. When anyone dares to take a breath of fresh air, the “STAY VIGILANT” crowd must pop in to tell us it’s a trap.

I'm with you on this one. They wanted a nice, sleepy, easy win during the holiday season and found out that even with all the distractions, we're still paying attention.

This is a moment for a bit of pride in our community and a sigh of relief. Acknowledging a victory (however temporary) is not the same as throwing vigilance out the window.

Book

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:
Keep your eyes wide open and watch your back because they may be planning an executive order on the issue next month once he is in.

I keep reading this stuff, and I have to wonder why people choose to live like this. One poster posted THE EXACT SAME THING In both threads. We just can’t breath, enjoy a win and enjoy the holidays.

Why?

Because frankly, it’s a dumb position to negotiate. We were PROMISED in these threads that da ebil ATF was already in bed with Obiden. And that you could comment if you want, but this is a “done deal” and the “cake is already baked” and other nonsense and conspiracy theories.
Hassle
If any of that was remotely true, this would have not transpired. The process would have continued as quietly as possible, and Slow Joe would have just taken credit for this soon after his installation. But, no.

Now, on social media, people are warning this is a trap. And they’ll be back after January, despite that the ATF acting director just signed on for another year.

Enjoy a win. Stop with the silly conspiracy theories. This happens every time. When anyone dares to take a breath of fresh air, the “STAY VIGILANT” crowd must pop in to tell us it’s a trap.

I do not know what you are talking about accusing me of making conspiracy theories. I did not say you could not enjoy the holiday all I stated was good sound advice to stay vigilant. It is the same advice that came out in an action alert today by Guns of America.

I referred to plain statements that both Biden and Harris have stated what they plan to do regarding anti-gun legislation and executive orders. A few months ago people were saying it was a conspiracy theory to believe that mail-in voting might have irregularities and would affect the presidential election. Well look what happened.

Before 2020 when I tried recruiting people at gun shows for the VA citizens Defense league people stated we do not have to worry, the VA legislature is going to stay Republican and if it does not the Democrats will not dare try to do anything regarding gun control. The Democrats took control of both houses in 2020 and almost immediately introduced severe anti-gun legislation that would have outlawed semiautomatic firearms among other things.

The worst thing one can do is underestimating ones opponent. Yes the win is good but if you believe this is a major victory and there is not much to worry about regarding federal gun control, I believe that is a major mistake. When people believe they have a major win they become complacent, stop paying attention to new anti-gun legislation, and do not think they have to bother making comments to their legislators, comment on federal regulations, and being involved with their state gun rights groups.

It is usually new gun owners who will see this victory and state, "we have won" and they are not going to be able to take our guns. Many citizens in other countries believes the same thing and lost their guns and gun rights. Such as the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Yes we have the Second Amendment, but the people who control the White House, Congress, and maybe the Senate do not believe that right exists.

Gun control is a major and overwhelming priority for the Democrats and they are going to take every opportunity to enforce it.

You guys certainly like to fear monger, I’ll give you that.

The Virginia Citizens Defense League has an interesting comment on the brace issue with a reference to an on-line discussion where a retired FBI agent (pro 2A) presents some issues at 41 minute mark. This VCDL note was in their latest alert.

"1. BATFE backs off getting input for pistol braces
________________________________________

Gun owners flooded BATFE with negative comments and the BATFE has decided to back down on getting input on proposed pistol-brace guidelines. That doesn't mean that those with such braces are home-free just yet. We'll have to see what BATFE does next.

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/...stol-brace-guidance/

Note that the BATFE has not said that purposefully putting a brace against your shoulder is OK. They said if it touches your shoulder while firing, that doesn't make it a stock. The idea being if you are firing the pistol with the brace against your cheek, for example, and during recoil the brace touches your shoulder inadvertently, that would not make the brace a stock.

More on that here (skip to 41 minute mark to see retired FBI agent discussing pistol braces): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tB6iAQr8kyw That video also discusses other things, such as the Polymer80 situation."

I don't mean to be an alarmist, but it may not be over yet. Even though the AFT withdrew their paper on proposed rule changes for pistol braces, they haven't removed their comments page.

I'm glad we seem to have won this one, but I fear it's not over yet. Since the comments page is still active I suggest that gunowners continue to flood the AFT with their comments. According to this video, only about 70,000 comments have been sent in. That sounds like a lot, but considering that there are millions of pistol braces out there, it's really not.

Keep letting the ATF know what you think. If comments stop at the current level, they can always say that they didn't receive enough comments critical of their new proposal and they decided to go through with it anyway. Don't stop now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3E5Fdt-XD8

ATF is probably going to take all the rational comments that have been made and come up with a definition of brace vs. stock that has more specifics to it:

They could very easily come up with specifications for:

Length of Pull
Rubber Cuff vs. Solid Blade
Size of Cuff (has to actually fit an arm through it)
Attachment Method to Arm (straps vs. Tailhook style)
Material - Soft for conformance to arm vs. Hard fixed like a stock
Contact area on rear surface
Attachment method to firearm - using standard buffer tubes/mounts used for stocks or something that is exclusive to the brace.
Weight of pistol
Length of barrel

Most of the objections were based on the fact that the "guidance" was not specific and was completely subjective. As such it would not likely survive legal challenge. Now they have a whole lot of info on the legal challenges that would be made so they can write a rule that would not easily be stricken down.

The simple fact is this: ALMOST EVERYONE WITH A PISTOL BRACE USES IT AS A STOCK AND THE MOST POPULAR ONES ARE THE ONES THAT FUNCTION BEST AS STOCKS. ALMOST NO ONE USES BRACES AS INTENDED/DESIGNED.

Braces are simply a very creative method of camouflage so we can have SBR's with things that are "almost as good as a stock" but not have to go through the NFA process. BUT since they CAN be used by disabled people as functionally designed and intended, banning them would run afoul of the rights of disabled people, veterans groups, ADA, etc.

We all know this is true, so we can stop pretending it isn't. Given the fact that in many cases this is an end run around the SBR restrictions in the NFA, the ATF can and will act to "do something" about it. Braces will not be banned, but criteria will be established to determine if a brace is really a brace or a stock that looks like a brace.

quote:

Originally posted by rlbuzz:
I don't mean to be an alarmist, but it may not be over yet.

Keep letting the ATF know what you think. If comments stop at the current level, they can always say that they didn't receive enough comments critical of their new proposal and they decided to go through with it anyway. Don't stop now.

No, they actually can’t. Once it’s withdrawn it is done until when and if they decide to file again and open up for fresh, new comments.

Want to do some good? Tell your fellow gun owners to STOP sending in clarification letters.

The information below came from the VA citizens Defense league (VCDL) alert dated January 6, 2021:

"4. What BATFE withdrawing a proposed regulation on pistol braces really means

________________________________________

BATFE withdrawing their proposed regulation that would have allowed them to decide subjectively, on a case-by-case basis, if a particular configuration of a pistol brace would convert a pistol into a short-barrel rifle, was not a victory. Instead, expect BATFE to comeback with an "objective" regulation that is pure baloney, just like their regulation that banned bump-stocks because they are "machine guns" <eye roll>. We will continue to monitor the situation, but you would be wise to expect another major fight coming our way in the near future over braces."