If the NFA gets repealed in part or in whole, I'll sacrifice my investment for the greater good and just be happy.

quote:

Originally posted by markand:
As to whether NFA items are a "good investment", here is my admittedly non-expert take on that question.

I doubt that anyone who posts in this section of the forum is less of an expert than I, but I agree with your analysis.

I strongly doubt that the NFA is going away, but if the “no new machine guns” were repealed even without eliminating the registry entirely, that would obviously have an effect on the value of the ones in private hands now. Less affected would be the ones that are true collectables rather than just anything that has full auto capability.

But how likely is that? Not very, in my opinion, at least not by legislation. The “hearing protection act” regarding suppressors didn’t go far, and although it’s been largely ignored in certain circles, even Number 45 reportedly said he “didn’t like” the devices. If we can’t get a break on innocuous devices that are perfectly legal, not to mention encouraged in countries that have very tight restrictions on actual firearms, “Machine guns‽ You must be crazy!!!” Plus, the third or fourth time a school was shot up by someone using an MG, that could actually endanger the Second Amendment itself.

I also have no great hopes that the Supreme Court is going to overturn the NFA or even parts of it for a couple of reasons, not least because I’m pessimistic enough to feel that the current makeup that was responsible for Bruen won’t be with us long enough to affect any challenges to the Act itself. And even if it is, there are already signs that the Court isn’t necessarily going to automatically rule in our favor every time a gun rights issue goes before them.

Slight detour. My tax stamp was denied, but only due to a typo/clerical error in my paperwork for my trust. I have no idea what I'm doing here, relied on the gun shop and Silencer Shop to handle it all, took their word for it when they assured me it was all good to go. So it looks like the turnaround time was six mos, which isn't bad. But now it's going to start all over, which sucks. I doubt any examiner at ATF is going to notice this (or care) and move me to the front of the line.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Slight detour.

I would be curious to learn how this turns out.
My application was also denied for some minor error on the form, but it was processed shortly after it was corrected. I was under the impression that such errors didn't put the application at the bottom of the queue. But perhaps it depends on the examiner.

I finally got it resubmitted today. Of course, ATF's eForms site has been having problems since this started. I spent probably an hour on the phone with the gun store, then an hour there in person today, no joy. Another 45 min. with them on the phone today and it finally went through. ATF is probably in no hurry to fix their site. Everyone I've asked said the wait will start all over again, but I've seen some folks on other sites say they're seeing 60 day turnarounds now.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
If the NFA gets repealed in part or in whole, I'll sacrifice my investment for the greater good and just be happy.

Hear! Hear!

I have two transferables. I also have two stripped AR-15 lowers. If the Hughes Amendment is ever repealed, on that day, that very hour, I will efile two Form 1's to convert them to M-16 configuration.

I will give my opinion as a owner of full auto class 3 items for 30 years. My initial investment back in 1994 for 2 items was about $5,500.00. I consider the value of the items today at $55,000.00 and I am being conservative looking at retail pricing along with trade in.

I have made 10X on my initial investment. I do not see the pricing for the items going up much higher as prices have been stable for the last 4-5 years. I may sell as I do not shoot them and want to move into other things.

Other class 3 purchases have been SBR's over the last 4 years along with a suppressor. The SBR's and suppressor are what I consider purchases to enjoy as I do not feel I will make anything back on them and may sell at a loss to get rid of.

As for non class 3 items my investments going back 30+ years will pay back 2-3 fold on certain items. Custom .45 pistols, and a few Colt AR rifles I bought were good investments.

There are a bunch of what ifs to go along with this. If NFA is scaled back suppressors and SBR' would most likely be dropped. As another poster said, everyone with a lathe will be tuning out cans if that happened. NFA most likely will not repeal any rules on FA items.

Investing in FA guns today will take a lot higher investment and I do not see the 10X return in a reasonable amount of time. I do consider I lucked out and timing was good.

I will not be surprised if someone challenges the NFS on as applied grounds under Miller (1934) because the use case has changed; what was once a dangerous and unusual weapon not fit for the military has become standard issue. Just need the right plaintiff and a war chest behind it…

quote:

Originally posted by Legal Beagle:
Just need the right plaintiff and a war chest behind it…

Well, and someone who has committed a federal felony with a potential ten year sentence and a quarter million dollar fine to boot. That's the problem with challenging the NFA - if you lose, you lose hard. I can see why it hasn't really been challenged in all that time.

We can still all hope there's a guy out there who's willing to risk it all and get behind him and try to push it all the way to the Supremes, but I'm not sure we'll see that day. I want it, and I think the NFA could be overturned under the right circumstances, but I'm not going to count on it. I think the idea of the average citizen being able to walk into a gun shop and walk out with a machine gun is also so scary to the political elites that if the NFA got overturned, we would immediately see new legislation passed to get around it. It would happen faster and with possibly more solidarity than the "Tik Tok ban."

Very serious question. How much effort is it to setup a LLC and get a FFL 07 and SOT as a builder ? Seems there are post 86 machine guns not requiring a law letter for next to nothing. Other than the paperwork of the FFL and filing a return for that business. In theory you could act as a transfer dealer for friends and order guns at wholesale to stay in business.

I have a buddy who's moving to Europe and had planned for his elderly father to come with him. They are trying to sell a bunch of guns and he sent me some photos today. One appears to be a WWII-era machine gun. I texted him to ask about paperwork and he said his father passed away yesterday, so he can't ask him, has no idea if the gun was papered. Can this be added to the registry and, if so, as a transferable MG or dealer sample only? How does that work?

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Can this be added to the registry and, if so, as a transferable MG or dealer sample only?

No, it cannot be registered by a nongovernment entity (like a dealer or private citizen) if it's an unregistered MG.

However, it can be donated to a government museum or law enforcement agency who can register it to themselves on a Form 10. It then becomes legal, but nontransferrable, even to a NFA dealer.

Otherwise it'll need to be surrendered and/or destroyed (hopefully after stripping all the parts off the receiver to salvage whatever remaining collectors/parts value you can).

But your friend will want to search really really hard to see if he can find registration paperwork first. And likely talk to an attorney with experience in NFA firearms to explore any other possible options and discuss how to correctly handle the situation to limit their personal liability.

Edit: See also https://youtu.be/f2fV6M8IAKg