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Federal Match Magnum LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor? Login/Join 
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Perhaps this information is out there and I’m just too inept to find it, but I’m hoping for the easy way:

I have a carton of Federal large rifle magnum match primers (GM215M) that I originally intended for use in handloading 300 Winchester Magnum. That rifle is long gone now, but I’m thinking of starting to load for 6.5 Creedmoor. Is there any reason not to use those primers? (Assuming, of course, the cases don’t have small primer pockets.) Is it necessary to worry about adjusting loads that specify standard primers?

Thanks for all replies.




“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
— Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 43512 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was advised when I started my 6.5 creedmoor long range journey that magnum primers were the way to go. I had no reason to question the source so that's what I've been developing the load for.

I've experimented with CCI 250 and Federal 215. The Feds definitely gave me tighter groups with the same charge weight (41.8gr of IMR 4451), something I am planning on double checking Saturday now that I have the neck tension issue under control.


"In order to understand recursion, you must first learn the principle of recursion."
 
Posts: 2750 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Thank you; just the information I was seeking.

If you don't have a thread going on your efforts, please let us know here the latest results.




“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
— Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 43512 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I will most certainly let you know how it goes.


"In order to understand recursion, you must first learn the principle of recursion."
 
Posts: 2750 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have not experimented with them in 6.5 Creedmoor, but in 308 WIN they (F215M) have proven more consistent in velocity (Extereme Spread and Standard Deviation) and also add velocity given the same powder charge.
I can't find all my information right now, but I took 5 rounds (maybe not enough sample size) of Winchester Primers, Federal F210M, Federal F215M, CCI BR, and small primer brass with CCI Magnum and F205M. They were all loaded the same Hornady 155gr ELDM bullet, Varget powder and new Starline brass. They were through a Steyr elite in the same afternoon and I used a Chrono Pro to measure velocities.
Of all those loads, F215M was the most consistent in speeds but did result in higher velocities (~40fps over F210M for example) so I had to reduce my subsequent loads by ~0.2 grain. CCI Small Magnum primer was next in consistency followed by CCI BR (large) and F210M. In other loads I have done between the F210M and the CCI BR they will "flip flop" in regards to consistency leader.
If I did this again, I would have used once fired Lapua brass (more consistent for me) and just neck or bump sized to reduce variables.


 
Posts: 1711 | Location: North Cackalacky | Registered: September 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Thanks. Those details are informative and very useful.




“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
— Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 43512 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I too have used magnum primers in non-magnum calibers. In various 6mm's and 6.5x47's magnum primers shot better. Also use magnum primers for my AR's.

The Berger 140 Hybrid jumped .010 is the bullet to use!
 
Posts: 2950 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Thanks, offgrid. I keep forgetting to check back to this section of the forum.
Now I need to decide on a powder. I have some OLD stocks, but don't know if any of that is recommended for the 6.5.




“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
— Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 43512 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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H4350 1st choice.

Tough times for sure finding powder. Salida Gunshop would be worth a call.

What powder do you have?
 
Posts: 2950 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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I was surprised by the amount of powder the Salida Gunshop and Murdoch's had a couple of weeks ago.
As for what I have, it's been so long that I will have to dig into my stash to check. I see that probably the last time I did any handloading I used IMR 4064 in 308.

Thanks for the H4350 suggestion; that seems to be very common.




“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
— Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 43512 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
H4350 1st choice.

Tough times for sure finding powder. Salida Gunshop would be worth a call.

What powder do you have?


H4350 is what the guy who got me into all of this mess uses. He uses CCI LRM, an undisclosed amount of H4350, and the same Berger bullets I use (140gr hybrid target) for his 6.5 Creed, and the same powder and bullet but with SRM for his 6.5x47 Lapua match gun. IMR 4451, is for all intents and purposes the IMR equivalent. From what the internet sez, it's a little bit less energy dense. From what he told me about his experiments it's a little bit more. Either way, either works well. I can say that 4451 does not copper foul as bad as he was expecting, and it (and the match barrel on the Nucleus) doesn't foul NEARLY as bad as IMR 4895, which is what I used most of the time in 308. (I've played with Varget exactly once in my life and it was a month before I bought the Nucleus.)

Sorry I'm a bit late on my range report. The Feds were a lot tighter in my 6.5CM with the same charge weight, brass and bullets when compared to CCI LRM. I'm pretty abysmal behind the trigger (getting better though), but a difference like what I saw couldn't be ighored. I'll put up photos once I get them off my phone.

I'm hoping to get out either tomorrow or Saturday to try again with a clean gun. I'll try to document well enough this time to either serve as a guide or a warning depending on outcome.


"In order to understand recursion, you must first learn the principle of recursion."
 
Posts: 2750 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've been having reasonable luck with RL17 and A4350 in 6.5 Creedmoor. Accurate seems to take more grains for the same velocity in my guns as compared to H4350 and IMR...but is more available.


 
Posts: 1711 | Location: North Cackalacky | Registered: September 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by huskerlrrp:
I've been having reasonable luck with RL17 and A4350 in 6.5 Creedmoor. Accurate seems to take more grains for the same velocity in my guns as compared to H4350 and IMR...but is more available.


Myself and most of my fellow competitive shooters shy away from R17. R17 tends to shoot best right up against max pressure and have a narrow tune window. Unlike H4350 that will show hints of pressure as you get close and have a .5 grain or so tune window. R17 is almost like a switch, no pressure then big pressure could be just a couple tengths apart. That can bite you if work up a load in say 50 degree temps ten shoot in higher temps or shoot a few rounds, next round sit in the chamber for a little while baking..... If I did use R17, would find that pressure wall and want to be at least .5 grain below and hope it still shoots.

sigfreund, another powder that should be more available is H4831SC. Not ideal as it will be slower. At the distance I belive you shoot, 50-75fps less won't make a lick of difference. If I were to load 4831SC in a 6.5CM, would absolutely start with a magnum primer.

Up against 12yrs since I chambered a 6.5CM, good to see so many shooting it now!
 
Posts: 2950 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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I turns out I have an unopened container of 4350, three boxes of 140 grain Berger bullets (two of the “hybrid” and one “VLD target”), and beaucoup Hornady 6.5 brass. I even have a box of Lapua brass, but when I ordered it way back I didn’t realize that it has small primer pockets. I have a bit of small rifle primers, but not much. Trying to decide if I should get some Lapua brass with the large pockets or just rely on the Hornady—advice?

I appreciate all the guidance, and as the weather continues to be less friendly for outdoor activities here, I may actually start doing something with all that.




“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
— Thomas Paine
 
Posts: 43512 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Doubt we could shoot the difference between large and small primer brass. The advantage to the small primer pocket brass should last longer, more firings, before the pockets open up, get loose. More material around the primer pocket, tougher. I would go small primer pockets, magnum primer.

It's reasonable to expect 10+ firing out the brass with sane loads. 3-3500K rounds out of 6.5CM barrel. 300pcs of brass should get you through a barrel. How I approach buying brass.

The 140VLD is an excellent bullet, I shot a few thousand VLD's in 6.5x47's. VLD's usually shoot best with about .010-.015 jam. Jammed the OAL might be longer then your max mag length? Single feed. I shoot VLD's in my 6mm, they shoot inside the Hybrids by a smidge. Both very good bullets.
 
Posts: 2950 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
quote:
Originally posted by huskerlrrp:
I've been having reasonable luck with RL17 and A4350 in 6.5 Creedmoor. Accurate seems to take more grains for the same velocity in my guns as compared to H4350 and IMR...but is more available.


Myself and most of my fellow competitive shooters shy away from R17. R17 tends to shoot best right up against max pressure and have a narrow tune window. Unlike H4350 that will show hints of pressure as you get close and have a .5 grain or so tune window. R17 is almost like a switch, no pressure then big pressure could be just a couple tengths apart. That can bite you if work up a load in say 50 degree temps ten shoot in higher temps or shoot a few rounds, next round sit in the chamber for a little while baking..... If I did use R17, would find that pressure wall and want to be at least .5 grain below and hope it still shoots.

sigfreund, another powder that should be more available is H4831SC. Not ideal as it will be slower. At the distance I belive you shoot, 50-75fps less won't make a lick of difference. If I were to load 4831SC in a 6.5CM, would absolutely start with a magnum primer.

Up against 12yrs since I chambered a 6.5CM, good to see so many shooting it now!

Interesting, I had thought I had a "super load" in 308 with RL17 and 208gr but later showed signs of pressure. It was unpredictable so I had to go with a lower node. This comment makes me feel better...if anything.
In 6.5 Creedmoor I'm just under 2600fps with 147grain ELDM, RL17, Lapua Small Primer and 0.030 jump with 1/2-3/4 MOA in 5 and 10 shot groups. No signs of pressure.
It seems everyone is shooting Hodgdon 4350 but I've been unable to find it in the last 6 months. I have found IMR4350 and Accurate 4350. They have shown significant speed differences for the same powder weight. They both seem to work best with compressed loads. Accurate 4350 is much slower (~100fps) than IMR and Hodgdon publications.
If you have any other "tips" it would be appreciated. Reloading and shooting is enjoyable....


 
Posts: 1711 | Location: North Cackalacky | Registered: September 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I finally have decent results to share.

I was doing some load development with Shooter's World Long Rifle powder.

I loaded an abbreviated ladder of 36-40.3gr of SW LR powder, in 0.3gr increments, in 3x fired Starline brass under 140gr Berger Hybrid Target, with Federal large rifle magnum primers. Neck bushing was 0.288, sized about a third of the way down the neck.

Apologies for the massive images, I'm on mobile. I'll fix it when I get home.



Left to right: 36, 36.3gr



Bottom left is 41.8gr of IMR 4451 with a CCI 200 primer. Not bad, but not the best I've seen out of the rifle. Unfortunately the only specific loads I remember are that the bottom right was 39.0gr of LR, and the top left was 39.3gr. I did jump from somewhere in the 37's to the 39.

Overall, the rifle is a damned good shooter, and the primers can perform, at least as far as I've taken it.

Edit: images being a pain. I'll fix it later.

Edit 2: fixed the images.


"In order to understand recursion, you must first learn the principle of recursion."
 
Posts: 2750 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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