One of my basic questions is in the products/bullet choice. For example my rifle (a .308 Win) shoots Hornaday and Winchester Supreme 168 Gr match grade ammo well. However it didn't like the Federal ammo I tried. I know a lot of people like Federal so maybe it was a bad batch. Additionally, I have tried hand loads my friend made up. They shot well also.

Now it is my turn. I got the books, press, powder etc... One question I have is on the bullets themselves. There is some differences between manufacturer's bullet co-effecients ( the sectional density, bullet circumfrance and weight don't change). Additionally, on Midway's website (not just a disgruntal review) it says the Berger bullet must be put on the beginning of the lands and grouves and that they might not fit into some magazines. I just want to know how true this is. Either way I bought a couple of manufatures in the 168 grain to try out. Based on bullet co-effeceints I am going to try the Berger, CCI and Match King ammos in that order. I will also keep playing with the IMR 4064 powder charges to see how it works.

You are going to have to test the different bullets and that oal thingy is a little different in each rifle.Also there is the break in thing on a new rifle.
This is something I have been playing with for years.I take a press to the place I shoot with the sole purpose of getting the oal for a particular rifle.
You don't have to spend a fortune on the most expensive bullets either.You want accuracy try Nosler,and if you want to mess up some meat try Barnes XXX .you want to kill something without destroying a lot of meat try Hornady round nose on a reduced load.
When you get to testing the oal for your rifle you will probably find that it likes about 18,000 of lands and groves .Some of mine like a little more and some like a little less .If its a Wheatherby ,forget it.The couple I got ,the throat is way out of reach with a loaded cartage . The 700's are a piece of cake.

Loading for accuracy in a rifle is a bit more tricky than loading for handguns. Every rifle is diff. The fact that one brand of ammo shoots better than another is quite common. The same will happen w/ handloads. Diff. bullets & diff. bullet/powder combos can show wild swings in accuracy.
The only way to find an accurate load is to start shooting. SOme basic guidlines: Start w/ all the same fired cases. Choose a bullet w/ a good reputation for accuracy, usually match bullets for paper punching. Choose a powder that gives you the vel. you are looking for & nearly fills the case. A good starting point for OAL is the mag. length, then 0.10" off the lands. Not all bbls. like bullets off the lands or into the lands, all bbls. are diff. Like 45cal said, some rifles won't even let you get close to the lands.
I have a 338-06 hunting rig that shoots very nice round groups w/ just about any 200-210gr & 250gr bullets. It will not shoot any 225gr bullet to an acceptable level of accuracy, for me, under 1" @ 100. My 260ai target has never put a group w/ any bullet over 1" @ 100. Obviuosly w/ the right load is well under 1/2" @ 100. There is a good book out on precision handloading for rifles: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=665601

Just a few more questions:
1) how long is the break-in period for a blaser
2) a) I picked up the IMR 4064 for the .308. and plan on using 168 grain bullets CCI, Berger etc. What load would you start with. Keep in mind it will only be killing paper.

b) I also have a 300 Win Mag and have not hand loaded anything on it. However Winchester Supreme 180 Grains (Accu-bond, silver Ballistic tip, and other supremes) in that rifle. How can I replicate the results. I picked up the same bullets as the supremes and IMR 4831 and IMR 4350 powder. Unfortunately, the Winchester 780 Supreme was not available back then.
3) Is there anything else I need to know before I start

quote:

Originally posted by alcpa7:
Just a few more questions:
1) how long is the break-in period for a blaser
2) a) I picked up the IMR 4064 for the .308. and plan on using 168 grain bullets CCI, Berger etc. What load would you start with. Keep in mind it will only be killing paper.

b) I also have a 300 Win Mag and have not hand loaded anything on it. However Winchester Supreme 180 Grains (Accu-bond, silver Ballistic tip, and other supremes) in that rifle. How can I replicate the results. I picked up the same bullets as the supremes and IMR 4831 and IMR 4350 powder. Unfortunately, the Winchester 780 Supreme was not available back then.
3) Is there anything else I need to know before I start

The breakin for one of my rifles was 47 rounds in 300.win mag.I was using the R L 22 if i remember right with Nosler 180's
The 300 ultra mag took about twenty rounds with R L 25 with the same bullet.
I do not like the winchester combined technology bullets.They take quite a few rounds to coat the barrel and its a bitch to get clean.
Then the regular bullet behave badly if you mix them with the coated ones.

Berger VLD bullets do indeed shoot better when loaded into the lands, which usually gives too long an OAL to fit the magazine. I don't consider that a disadvantage when "punching paper". Indeed, the NRA requires single loading for Long Range shooting.

However, if you just must, Berger makes what they call "Match Boattail" bullets that are less critical and can be loaded to magazine length with good accuracy.

Be sure to try different powders also. I have had good luck with Varget and RL-15.

my friend made me some ammo using a relatively light load of IMR 4895 and 168 Gr Sierra Match Kings. It worked out well. I intend to shoot a number of different combinations of powders and powder weights, bullet weights and co-efficients. Basically I intended to use co-effecients to determine my bullet choice and trial and error for everything else.

One thing I noticed was that odly the Winchester Supreme Balistic tips out performed Winchester's Supreme Competition match grade bullets. I thought match grade bullets were supposed to out perform hunting rounds. I know at the end of the day the groups were smaller with the Ballistic silver tips.n I checked the co-effecients and the silver tips had a slightly higher co-effecient. The one thing I don't understand is that sierra match kings have a relatively good but not great co-effecients. The Bergers have good numbers the best I have seen so far. when you are trying to win why not spend a couple of more dollars.

Also when I stick regular factory ammo in the magazine I have a little less than 3/8 of an inch of room. Do you think the Berger's will fit in my magazine?

Also it seems like the preferred round for 308 is 16 Gr. What is the preferred round for a 300 Win Mag. I think 180 works best.

Don't get too hung up on BC. It is only really relavent when you are shooting 300yds & beyond. The BC has little to do w/ the actual accuracy of the bullet &/or the load. Every rifle/bbl is diff. & one bullet will often shoot better than another & then not the same in two rifles of identical mnauf. Berger 168grVLD should fit your mag length. For the 300winmag, the only reason to shoot the magnum is to push longer/heavier bullets faster than a non magnum & then really only usefull when going way beyond 600yds for paper punching. Think 172gr match bullets & up.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by alcpa7:
One thing I noticed was that odly the Winchester Supreme Balistic tips out performed Winchester's Supreme Competition match grade bullets. I thought match grade bullets were supposed to out perform hunting rounds. I know at the end of the day the groups were smaller with the Ballistic silver tips.n I checked the co-effecients and the silver tips had a slightly higher co-effecient. The one thing I don't understand is that sierra match kings have a relatively good but not great co-effecients. The Bergers have good numbers the best I have seen so far. when you are trying to win why not spend a couple of more dollars.
QUOTE]
Match grade ammo is more about consistency than theoretical performance. The difference in velocities listed by Winchester for your 2 examples is only 29fps at 500yds. But the match bullet uses "Special Nosler® boattail bullet design with Spiveco/J4 jacket for unmatched concentricity and uniformity...". What you want is a consistent velocity and, therefore, a consistent bullet drop at long ranges, shot after shot. Match grade ammo is supposed to give you that consistency just as match grade barrels is supposed to. Bullet manufacturers calculate BCs based on the design of their bullets. The question is - does every bullet in the box, every box in a batch, and every batch in production meet that exact design? A bullet with a lower BC may not have the theoretical performance of another bullet but that just means that you'll sight in your rifle differently than for another bullet with a different BC. If the bullet's consistent, it may be more accurate, shot-to-shot, than another bullet that has a higher BC but isn't manufactured with as strict tolerances. All of this, of course, isn't relevant if you, your reloads, and your gun can't take advantage of the bullet's potential.

1. Do you have a chronograph?!?!

2. What kinda scale or powder measure are you going to be using?

3. Do you have a comparator gadget that slips onto your calipers jaws or an RCBS Precision Mic ? (You need to know how far back you're gonna set the cases' shoulders when you resize.)

4. Ogive measuring thing-a-ma-bob? I don't mean to get too technical with my jargon.

5. What kinda gun? Bolt? Semi-auto?

6. What kinda barrel? Carbon steel or stainless steel? Twist rate? Contour? Fluted vs. not fluted? Pencil thin or big around as a 6 cell Mag-Lite?

7. Just how anal retentive do you want to get with reloading rifle rounds?

I don't mean to come across as condescending and a know it all, but you do understand that when working up loads is best to change one thing at a time.

Pick one type of bullet (weight, profile, shape) and stick with that.

Pick just one Over All Length, and stick with that.

Stick with just one manufacturer's headstamp, preferably all brass from the same lot.

Stick with just one primer.

Now, go to town tinkering with your powder charge weights....

I stumbled across this forum a few years ago:

Practical Riflery Forums

I have NOT delved too much into it, but I guess some folks there have come up with a "system" for determining the Optimum Charge Weight (OCW).

It might be worth it for you to take a look into it.

BTW, I am very anal. I am also just learning so I am still willing to listen to suggestions. To answer your questions: yes, I know to fix one thing at a time. As for the chronograph; I don't have one (yet). The rifle I have is a Blaser Tactical 2 with a heavy barrel and a Nikon Monarch X 4-14*50 SF Tactical scope 30mm diameter. I was sticking with 168 GR bullets, CCI 200 Primers, and IMR 4064 powder. I intend to only change the powder weight until I get it where I want it.

quote:

Originally posted by alcpa7:
BTW, I am very anal. I am also just learning so I am still willing to listen to suggestions. To answer your questions: yes, I know to fix one thing at a time. As for the chronograph; I don't have one (yet). The rifle I have is a Blaser Tactical 2 with a heavy barrel and a Nikon Monarch X 4-14*50 SF Tactical scope 30mm diameter. I was sticking with 168 GR bullets, CCI 200 Primers, and IMR 4064 powder. I intend to only change the powder weight until I get it where I want it.

alcpa7 - I'm thinking of buying that exact scope! What do you consider to be the scope's effective range for target shooting?

As I said earlier the longest range I have to shoot at is 300 yards but the scope is far greater than that! I have been told that the scope has a >1000 yards capability and I believe it. The scope is awesome. It is 1/2 the price of a Night Force and in comparission right up there as a close second. The big difference there is 1/4 v 1/8 MOA and slightly better glass (key word slightly). I don't think my naked eye could tell the difference.

The Leupold is similarly priced to the Nikon but a little higher (after all you are paying for the Leupold name) and has one slight advantage. Leupold has a feature so you can mark your scope at various distances. However you can do the same thing by setting it for a base and then keeping track of how many clicks to get the desired yards. I was told the Leupold tactical scopes were using swarofski glass.

I looked through all of the high end scopes and prefer the Nikon glass. For the money it is a great scope. I bought mine on e-bay for $800 from the knifestore in MA. They were very professional and I recieved the scope very quickly. $800 is by far the best price you will find. My favorite gun store is a nikon dealer and when I asked him if he could match or beat the price he said he could not. One other thing to consider is that Nikon makes some of the best camera lenses in the world. It is not by accident that they put out a very nice rifle scope. When I spoke with Nikon I was told their best glass was on the Nikon Monarch X. One thing about 30mm tubes is the eye relief is designed to be shorter than the 1" tubes. They also have a similar model in a 1" tube but you can't get the Mildot in a 1" tube. It sells for just under $500 but it is not the same glass.

alcpa7 - Thanks! I plan to put the glass on an Alexander Arms 24" 6.5 Grendel Overwatch - which, of course, I'll be working up some reloads for.