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Plowing straight ahead come what may
Picture of Bisleyblackhawk
posted
It has been decades since I loaded for anything other than pistol (mostly cowboy action stuff) or subsonic loads for 7.62 NATO for use in my RFI Enfields...

I stopped by my LGS and picked up a pound of Hodgdon CFE 223 and a pound of BL-C (2)...both were on sale as well as having 25% off...they ended up at less than $18 a pound plus tax (I can live with that for load development)...

I also bought a brick of Winchester small rifle primers (also 25% off of their regular price of $40...not a bargain compared to PV...but, again I can live with it)...

I have a good supply of both LC once fired brass as well as various and sundry commercial stuff...as well as access to a Dillon primer pocket swaging tool to use whenever I want to...

I have 200 55 grain Hornady .223 bullets as well 1000 jacketed 55 grain FMJ bullets from Berry's Bullets...

I have dies as well as the correct Dillon powder funnel...

Questions:

Will the WSRP work...or do I need to find or order the CCI#41 primers?...

Anybody use these two powders to load for an AR...is one better than the other...are there better options?...

Anything I need to look out for or be aware of...resizing issues, OAL and feed issues that would be different for an AR15 as opposed to a bolt gun?...

Do ARs generally as a rule function well with loads at the bottom (starting) of the data?...

I guess what I'm looking for is a good all around range/plinking load that feeds and functions well with stock buffers and springs...the other stuff will follow in time...

There has been so much good information from the members here...a lot of knowledge shared since I have been a member...so...

...school me on loading .223/5.56 for the AR Smile


********************************************************

"we've gotta roll with the punches, learn to play all of our hunches
Making the best of what ever comes our way
Forget that blind ambition and learn to trust your intuition
Plowing straight ahead come what may
And theres a cowboy in the jungle"
Jimmy Buffet
 
Posts: 6735 | Location: Southeast Tennessee...not far above my homestate Georgia | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The WSRP (I hope you made a typo as pistol primers are no bueno in a rifle cartridge) will work but it is far from being the best for high-pressure loads in a .223. I would suggest you get Rem 7 1/2 (my fave), CCI 450 or BR4 or CCI 41.

Check the Hodgdon site for loads for both of those powders. Hodgdon lists good loads with the 55gr bullets. I prefer Varget but I shoot heavy bullets. H322 is also a very good powder for the .223 as are many others. It's really up to you to choose.

Depending on the provenance of the once-fired brass, you may decide to use a small-base die if it's military in origin; it might have come from a machine gun. Yuck. If it's LEO in origin, then a regular die will be fine.

Keep the COAL under 2.26 and you should be good to go. I've never bothered with crimping my cartridges because I filed them with powder and the bullet was compressing the load. If you're not loading full, a taper crimp might be a good idea.
 
Posts: 2504 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Plowing straight ahead come what may
Picture of Bisleyblackhawk
posted Hide Post
Yep...a typo (too many years loading .38 and .357 Big Grin)...corrected Smile...the LC brass is LEO (Bradley County Sheriff's Dept.)...they don't pick up their brass after they use our range for qualification (which is appreciated Smile)...they always leave our range in better shape than they found it


********************************************************

"we've gotta roll with the punches, learn to play all of our hunches
Making the best of what ever comes our way
Forget that blind ambition and learn to trust your intuition
Plowing straight ahead come what may
And theres a cowboy in the jungle"
Jimmy Buffet
 
Posts: 6735 | Location: Southeast Tennessee...not far above my homestate Georgia | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Knows too little
about too much
Picture of rduckwor
posted Hide Post
I've always wondered about the possibility of a chain fire from the floating firing pin of an AR with a standard rifle primer. I've never seen it happen, but that is a worry I have and others have expressed.

I will be interested in your findings.

I haven't loaded the CFE 223, but typically run Varget or H335.

You should be tickled at finding powder at those prices!

Good luck,

RMD




Some men are morally opposed to violence; they are protected by men who are not.
 
Posts: 18148 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by rduckwor:
I've always wondered about the possibility of a chain fire from the floating firing pin of an AR with a standard rifle primer. I've never seen it happen, but that is a worry I have and others have expressed.

I will be interested in your findings.

I haven't loaded the CFE 223, but typically run Varget or H335.

You should be tickled at finding powder at those prices!

Good luck,

RMD


The problem with thin primers like the WSRP and the Rem 6 1/2 and similar is that they will pierce on firing. That's what happened to me all those years ago and I learned about the difference in primers for the .223/5.56.

That all went away when I switched to the 7 1/2 and I've never looked back. I use that primer in my .308 Lapua Palma brass and I can assure you it's a stout load. Those 7 1/2 are great.
 
Posts: 2504 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Plowing straight ahead come what may
Picture of Bisleyblackhawk
posted Hide Post
They do have Remington 7 1/2 small rifle primers in stock at the same price as the Winchesters...I'll more than likely head over in the morning and pick up a brick...

I've got a friend who loads for a hornet that would probably love to receive a KARMA of a brick of Winchester small rifle primers Big Grin


********************************************************

"we've gotta roll with the punches, learn to play all of our hunches
Making the best of what ever comes our way
Forget that blind ambition and learn to trust your intuition
Plowing straight ahead come what may
And theres a cowboy in the jungle"
Jimmy Buffet
 
Posts: 6735 | Location: Southeast Tennessee...not far above my homestate Georgia | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You're a good man.
 
Posts: 2504 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of jmorris
posted Hide Post
quote:
I've got a friend who loads for a hornet that would probably love to receive a KARMA of a brick of Winchester small rifle primers


My Hornet really likes the 6 1/2's.

You might give the Winchesters a shot before you ditch them. I'm not sure how many hundreds of thousands Of them I have fired over the last 3+ decades.
 
Posts: 407 | Location: DFW | Registered: May 03, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Avoiding
slam fires
Picture of 45 Cal
posted Hide Post
Blown primers ,never had a single one.
That has been about all of them,tula, wolf, cci, win ,rem and the pricey 41's and when they were $9.95 a brick at local gun shops.
probably 25 years back after several powders I
settled on H-4895.
Loads just fine thru the 550 and I use it in the 06 for the M-1's
every 223/556 case is run thru small base die and the rcbs is my favorite as it does not let the case grow like the Hornadys.
I have always sized on the old rcbs rock chucker and did full workup after that.
25.5 of H4895 works for me in all my ar's I have left.
I have been thinning the herd,father time is biteing my heals.
 
Posts: 20983 | Location: Georgia | Registered: February 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Blue68f100
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I've only used Rem 7 1/2 of CCI #41 in my AR's. The CFE-223 powder is what I use for my general plinking loads. The charge is near the upper end is where I found the best accuracy in my gun. Had to play with the OAL to get the 55gr FMJBT to have any kind of grouping under 2".

When I first got my AR all I had was Rem 6 1/2, and they pierced so don't use them.

Slam fires do happen but are rare. I've had 1-2 in my 458 SOSCOM but it uses a LPP not the std rifle primer. So always make sure your gun is pointed in a safe direction when releasing the bolt.


David

P229R 9mm, Nitron, Beavertail Frame, Night Sights, DA/SA, SRT & Short Reach Trigger
 
Posts: 3394 | Location: Piney Woods of East Texas | Registered: November 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of chansen92
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
quote:
Originally posted by rduckwor:
I've always wondered about the possibility of a chain fire from the floating firing pin of an AR with a standard rifle primer. I've never seen it happen, but that is a worry I have and others have expressed.

I will be interested in your findings.

I haven't loaded the CFE 223, but typically run Varget or H335.

You should be tickled at finding powder at those prices!

Good luck,

RMD


The problem with thin primers like the WSRP and the Rem 6 1/2 and similar is that they will pierce on firing. That's what happened to me all those years ago and I learned about the difference in primers for the .223/5.56.

That all went away when I switched to the 7 1/2 and I've never looked back. I use that primer in my .308 Lapua Palma brass and I can assure you it's a stout load. Those 7 1/2 are great.
I have been reloading for the past twenty five years and my go to primers are Winchester. I have used others when that was all I could find. Currently I have around 18 - 20 thousand of them. I never had one or heard of them being a problem as you described. I can see where pierced primers could happen if they were not seated firmly or had a firing pin that was too long or maybe the head space was too big. In other words there was something wrong with the gun.
 
Posts: 1557 | Location: owosso,Mi. USA | Registered: August 18, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of hray
posted Hide Post
I use BLC-2 for my Sig M400
my plinking load is

55 Gr. FMJBT ordered through Roze distribution
BLC-2 25Gr.
Tula small rifle magnum primers
COAL of 2.215- 2.220
mixed brass

runs and cycles fine


P226 NSWG
P220 W. German
P239 SAS gen2
P6 1980 W. German
P228 Nickel
M400 SRP
 
Posts: 805 | Location: Miami | Registered: May 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of fredj338
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I have not used the Win srp but have used cci with no issues. I won't use Federal, just incase. A mag primer is a belt & suspender thing for the most part.
CFE223 works well with 55-60gr. I prefer something a bit slower for 68-69gr match bullets. I rarely get any rifle loads that are great at starting. So I go average middle data & you can work that up or down a bit for best accuracy.
I also prefer small base dies, just belt & suspenders when using mixed range brass. I chose the RCBS X-dies, prep once & never trim again.


IF YOU AREN'T HANDLOADING, YOU AREN'T SHOOTING ENOUGH!
NRA Instruc: Basic Pistol & Met Reloading
 
Posts: 7616 | Location: ca, usa | Registered: February 17, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hoping for better pharmaceuticals
Picture of AZSigs
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I've used WSRP and CCI primers for years on my .223 loads. Have never had a problem with them. Of the two powders I felt BLC-2 gave better accuracy in my LMT and Colt AR's. Loaded 25.6 grns CFE223 with a 55gr bullet. BLC-2 25.5 grns was used under the 55gr FMJBT. I am presently running through the last of some ARComp and then switching back to BLC-2. Good luck.




Getting shot is no achievement. Hitting your enemy is.
 
Posts: 7840 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: April 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of sourdough44
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I know the Sierra book has a section on reloading for semi-autos, may or may not be helpful.

One of the biggies is getting a stuck case if not properly resized. One feels it with a bolt action & can back off. It can be a real pain with a semi when that bolt slams home.

My favorite powders with the AR is Ramshot TAC with mid & heavier bullets. 'Exterminator' with the lighter bullets. The two powders you mentioned & bought should be fine also.
 
Posts: 2841 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
Picture of lyman
posted Hide Post
shot high power for 15 yrs using Win Small Rifle primers, no issues,

I have not used the two powders listed, I used 4895, 844 (surplus) or 748 mostly,



www.chesterfieldarmament.com
 
Posts: 5653 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of sigcrazy7
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sourdough44:
My favorite powders with the AR is Ramshot TAC with mid & heavier bullets. 'Exterminator' with the lighter bullets. The two powders you mentioned & bought should be fine also.


As an aside, note that X-Terminator and Accurate 2230 are the exact same powder, so if one isn't available, get the other. I like 2230 with 55grn bullets. I find it works better with near max loads, in the 24.5-25grn or so range.



[i]
 
Posts: 4794 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of sourdough44
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I'll keep that in mind(2230 being same). Yes I'll 'verify' it 1st.

I did an informal cleanliness test years back between H-335 & Ramshot TAC. It's possible one loading was at a lower pressure & had a less clean burn. I tried to keep it similar.

It consisted of shooting a number, recleaning, shooting the other, then comparing. The TAC won out handily in the cleanliness department. I did not factor in potential accuracy variations.

This came up because of a sluggish AR action in a SD dogtown after shooting a few 100 rounds. Again, it was an informal test.
 
Posts: 2841 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of sigcrazy7
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I can't remember where I saw an Accurate rep saying they were the same, but if you look at the loading guide from Western Powders, they list the exact same data for 2230 and X-Terminator, right down to the velocity figures. It looks like they did a work up on one product and then just duplicated it to the other.



[i]
 
Posts: 4794 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Have used BLC2 and Winchester Small Rifle Primers for years with no problems.
Used LC cases may have primer cripms...which are a pain in the butt to get rid of for easy primer seating. Consider processed/cleaned LC Brass that have had their primer pockets already reamed.
BLC is very good for mil-spec, 55 FMJ loads. For best accuracy, Varget and H335 and match bullets beat BLC every day, imho.
Depends also on your barrel twist and length.
I believe BLS2 was developed for the military after the orginal m-16 powders jammed in humid climates.
I've used smallwincheter primers for years without any issues. For match loads, CCI BR-4's seem the standard.
 
Posts: 818 | Registered: March 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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