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Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
Only do rifle rounds now so automation is not a factor ~ quality is.
I use the Sinclair Prime Tool.

Hmmm... 4.6 out of 5 at Brownell's... plus your recommendation... tempting. At $140 it'd be nearly twice as expensive for just first caliber.

I will add it to the short list. I do like the looks of it. Looks like a well-built, non-nonsense piece of kit. Thanks for the pointer.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
 
Posts: 10928 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Report This Post
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Picture of xl_target
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I use a RCBS Universal Hand Priming tool when I'm loading with a single stage press.
This is usually for small batches of rifle rounds.
I like the fact that I don't have to use a dedicated shell holder for each caliber.
It is fast and I can feel the primer seating.

I have used the attachment for the Lee single stage press that I have and it works reasonably well but I'm lazy and I find the hand primer takes less effort on my part (getting the components together, setup, etc.).
 
Posts: 1903 | Registered: January 15, 2009Report This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:



Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzXnkuw54I4

Hahahahaha!

As soon as I thought I heard the guy say "about $600," I stopped the video, double-checked and moved on.

It looks like a Really Neat Tool, though.


Yeah, I know. I get that a lot. Like I said though, I did win it for free as a stage prize at a match. After having it, there's NO WAY I'd ever consider selling it, but if I had to shell out the cash? Man, I don't know. It sure is nice, but yeah, that's a big chunk of coin.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15631 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Report This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
Yeah, I know. I get that a lot. Like I said though, I did win it for free as a stage prize at a match.

Ah. Well, then, I guess you're not so crazy, after all

(I wasn't judging, btw. See below.)

quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
After having it, there's NO WAY I'd ever consider selling it,

Can't blame you for that. I wouldn't, either. Hell, if I won that I'd have to consider taking up reloading even w/o the stuff I was gifted.

quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
... but if I had to shell out the cash? Man, I don't know. It sure is nice, but yeah, that's a big chunk of coin.

For just a primer? Yeah it is. But, if it's what you live and breath for... *shrug* I spend my money in ways some of my friends find silly, so... *shrug*




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
 
Posts: 10928 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Report This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:

*shrug* I spend my money in ways some of my friends find silly, so... *shrug*



Very true. However, I can't decide if *I* would find it silly to spend my money on that. Like I said, it's SUPER nice, but man.. $600? I'd probably keep suffering along doing it on my CoAx.


Oh, and I only use that for competition brass. All the rest of my priming is done on either the 550 or the 650, depending on what caliber I'm loading.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15631 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Report This Post
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Currently I use an RCBS Hand Priming Tool.
http://www.rcbs.com/Products/P...nd-Priming-Tool.aspx

Some F-Class competitors use more advanced ($$$) tools but the way I look at it; I've had several cleans at 600 yards and a couple near cleans at 1000 yards with ammo primed with this tool, I don't think getting a fancier tool will make any measurable difference.

I use quality components and prime the cases with the same motion as much as possible. I do that sitting at a table and paying attention.

In 30-some years of reloading, I will say the only time I've ever had a primer detonate while priming a case was with the use of my single stage RCBS press. That was 34 years ago. I still remember the incident and the look on my girlfriend's face. We were watching TV at the time.

I've learned since then.
 
Posts: 2502 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Report This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
Currently I use an RCBS Hand Priming Tool.
http://www.rcbs.com/Products/P...nd-Priming-Tool.aspx

That's the one to which I earlier referred that, while it generally gets good ratings, there are two complaints about it--one fairly consistent:

  • Closing the top on the primer reservoir tray can result in many of the primers flipping. Then you have to open it again, flip 'em back over, try to close it again w/o flipping primers...
  • The way the tray sockets into the primer is apparently not exceedingly robust.


That's why, despite the additional expense (if you want the strip loader), I'm leaning toward the RCBS strip system.

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
Some F-Class competitors use more advanced ($$$) tools but the way I look at it; I've had several cleans at 600 yards and a couple near cleans at 1000 yards with ammo primed with this tool, I don't think getting a fancier tool will make any measurable difference.

I tend to buy more tool than I need. Part of that is I'm a bit of a tool junkie. I simply like well-designed, well-built tools. No reflection on your choice or the RCBS strip system tool, they're said to be very well built (save, possibly, as noted above), but, I have to say: That primer tool smschulz posted looks really nice.

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
In 30-some years of reloading, I will say the only time I've ever had a primer detonate while priming a case was with the use of my single stage RCBS press. That was 34 years ago. I still remember the incident and the look on my girlfriend's face. We were watching TV at the time.

Now imagine what might have happened if, behind that primer, there was a whole tray of additional primers? That's the argument against the (old) Lee auto-prime tool. (The [new?] RCBS tool, like you have, I believe has a "gate" that closes-off the primer being seated from the rest, and the strip system is even less prone to that potential problem.)

It is quite possible all I'll ever reload is rifle, and only that .308 tack-driver. If that turns out to be the case, I suspect efficiency won't be a concern.

If it turns out I enjoy reloading, I expect I'll probably want to invest in a good progressive reloader for pistol--and even .223/5.56. We'll see. I'm a long way from getting even the single-stage reloader going.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
 
Posts: 10928 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Report This Post
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I love your thoughtful, detailed and on-point reply. I shall endeavor to do the same.

To your point about the reviews of the RCBS priming tool.

The one to which you referred earlier when you said:
quote:
RCBS has a universal one with a feeding system similar to the Lee, but, users have had "issues" with that one, too. (Keeping the primers upright, plastic bits getting loose or breaking off, etc.)

is not the one to which I pointed. The tool you mentioned is this one:
http://www.rcbs.com/Products/P...nd-Priming-Tool.aspx
The universal thingie. Mine uses shellholders and doesn't suffer from the issues the universal one has.


About buying more tool than you need, I get that and I'm the same way. But I have yet to find or believe I need a better priming tool than the one I have. I bought the Lee Ergo tool a few years back and it's junk and now sits in its box on a shelf. I still have the original Lee primer tool which I bought for $10 new 34 years ago, after the big bang. I use it for priming pistol cartridges.

On your comment about my little primer incident: The reason the primer detonated was that it had started askew for some reason and the press does not provide a good feel for the task of primer seating. Handling the primers one by one is an issue and using something with the leverage to resize a fired rifle case is way out of proportion for seating a primer. The primer fired when mostly seated in the case and it sent its flame in the case. The primer did not explode and send shrapnel everywhere. This was a once in a lifetime occurrence, but nevertheless I always sit down at a table with just the primer tool, primers and a box of ammo and take my time priming the cases and inspect every primer before I put the case in the shellholder.

Finally, I have been handloading for a long time and if you read my stickied thread above, you will see the various steps I take to produce superlative, world class match ammo. I carefully select tools that will enhance the precision or make it easier to achieve that precision (or both), but such tools are pricy which is why I asked you early on about the level of the tools you want to consider. I can afford any tool I want, which is why I have an A&D scale with CM1500, a Giraud power trimmer and a Giraud annealer and myriad Redding, Whidden and so on dies and assorted junk. I don't mind paying the money to get the best tool for the job, but I don't want to spend money just for the sake of getting a pricey tool that will do nothing better or faster for me.

If your goal is to produce great ammo for that .308; I'm more than happy to provide guidance and comments to help you do that. There are a lot of others here who will happily jump in as well. Great ammo is assembled from great components using great tools. But the most important component is you.
 
Posts: 2502 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Report This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
I love your thoughtful, detailed and on-point reply. I shall endeavor to do the same.

To your point about the reviews of the RCBS priming tool.

The one to which you referred earlier when you said:
quote:
RCBS has a universal one with a feeding system similar to the Lee, but, users have had "issues" with that one, too. (Keeping the primers upright, plastic bits getting loose or breaking off, etc.)

is not the one to which I pointed. The tool you mentioned is this one:
http://www.rcbs.com/Products/P...nd-Priming-Tool.aspx
The universal thingie. Mine uses shellholders and doesn't suffer from the issues the universal one has.

Oops! My bad, and my apologies. Did not read closely enough. I'm going to have to be more careful than that in this new endeavour!

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
About buying more tool than you need, I get that and I'm the same way. But I have yet to find or believe I need a better priming tool than the one I have.

Understood.

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
I bought the Lee Ergo tool a few years back and it's junk and now sits in its box on a shelf. I still have the original Lee primer tool which I bought for $10 new 34 years ago, after the big bang. I use it for priming pistol cartridges.

Yeah, I've read mostly negative comments about Lee's newer hand-held priming tools. As for the original auto-prime... I dunno. That thing sounds scary. My buddy did find his and has added it to the next pile.

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
On your comment about my little primer incident: ...

Thanks for the postmortem explanation!

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
Finally, I have been handloading for a long time and if you read my stickied thread above, you will see the various steps I take to produce superlative, world class match ammo.

I've planned to eventually read all those stickied threads.

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
I carefully select tools that will enhance the precision or make it easier to achieve that precision (or both), but such tools are pricy which is why I asked you early on about the level of the tools you want to consider. I can afford any tool I want, which is why I have an A&D scale with CM1500, a Giraud power trimmer and a Giraud annealer and myriad Redding, Whidden and so on dies and assorted junk. I don't mind paying the money to get the best tool for the job, but I don't want to spend money just for the sake of getting a pricey tool that will do nothing better or faster for me.

That pretty-much defines my stance, except I cannot afford whatever I want. So compromises will have to be made. Thus, rather than a $1200 A&D scale, I'll have to make do with something like the $100 scale to which I referred in one of my other threads.

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
If your goal is to produce great ammo for that .308; I'm more than happy to provide guidance and comments to help you do that.

That will be my initial goal & I'll see where it goes, if anywhere, from there.

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
There are a lot of others here who will happily jump in as well.

I've seen that Smile. It's typical of SF. That's why SF is my favourite forum, bar none.

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
Great ammo is assembled from great components using great tools. But the most important component is you.

*nod* And that's one of the things Yet To Be Determined. I can have unbelievably focused attention, but, I can also sometimes (?) easily be distracted. So one of the questions to be answered will be: Will I be able to maintain the requisite degree of focus over the long term, or will I find reloading to be tedious and uninteresting, once I figure out what it's all about?




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
 
Posts: 10928 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Report This Post
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Endeavour? Favourite? What are you? Canadian?

Smile

To your last point about retaining focus over the long term.

To some, reloading is a must because they want to shoot a lot and can't afford to burn factory ammo. To others, handloading is a pursuit, a pastime, something they love to do.

After decades of doing it, handloading to me is a bit of a chore that I have to do to remain competitive at the highest levels of F-class competition. There is simply no other way to do that since there is not factory or custom ammo that I can buy which will do what is needed to play that game at that level. That's actually what my thread above is all about so I won't go into it here, but suffice to say, that my choice of reloading tools over the last decade and certainly the last lustrum has been totally predicated on producing world-class ammo in quantity and consistency as painlessly as possible. The issue has always been the time spent doing that and over the years. I've purchased the tools to reduce this time yet keep up the quality of the ammo. This is why I use the devices listed above or in my thread. About the only thing I have not bought (or rented as is the case with this device) is a Prometheus scale. Annealing is easy peasy, sizing is pretty quick, tumbling is automated, trimming/chamfering/deburring is super-fast, priming is also easy-peasy and powder charging is about the longest step here but I measure to the kernel and take about 1.5 hours to do 100 cases without hurrying with my combo set-up. I've considered a Prometheus but it's a big unit and I don't have the room for it.
 
Posts: 2502 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Report This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
Endeavour? Favourite? What are you? Canadian?

Smile

Nope. USAian all the way Smile But, I prefer the Brit spelling. It simply "looks more correct" to my eye. Especially "color."

I tend to use metric, too. Because: 1. The Imperial measurement system is Just Plain Stupid Smile and 2. Because I have friends & family all over the world, and most of them speak metric.

quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
To your last point about retaining focus over the long term.

To some, reloading is a must because they want to shoot a lot and can't afford to burn factory ammo. To others, handloading is a pursuit, a pastime, something they love to do.

For me I think it's going to end-up having to be something I enjoy doing as a pastime in and of itself. While it's true those .308 Win FGGM rounds are spendy (about $2/round, now, I believe): I don't really shoot enough for the eventual savings in costs to offset the cost of the reloading gear, even with all I've already been gifted.

I need to get what will become my reloading bench done, in any event, because that'll also be my cleaning and smithing bench. If reloading doesn't "take," for me, I can sell all the reloading gear and, since much of it was gifted to me, in the first place, I won't be "out" anything. In that case: The acquisition of the reloading gear will have served to finally motivate me to do something I've needed to do for Quite Some While Wink




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
 
Posts: 10928 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Report This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
<snip>$1200 A&D scale</snip>



It's only $563, not $1200. Big Grin




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15631 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Report This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
<snip>$1200 A&D scale</snip>

It's only $563, not $1200. Big Grin

I clicked on somebody's A&D scale link and the page said something like $1200... I think?

Oh, no... it was the result of a search. Now that same search turns up a price of only $660.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
 
Posts: 10928 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Report This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
<snip>$1200 A&D scale</snip>

It's only $563, not $1200. Big Grin

I clicked on somebody's A&D scale link and the page said something like $1200... I think?

Oh, no... it was the result of a search. Now that same search turns up a price of only $660.


It's avalable for $700 CDN, which translates to $563 shipped.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 15631 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Report This Post
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Picture of sigcrazy7
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I tend to use metric, too. Because: 1. The Imperial measurement system is Just Plain Stupid Smile


Ouch!

Let's keep in mind, there's two types of countries in the world. Those that use the metric system, and those that have landed on the moon. Big Grin



[i]
 
Posts: 4787 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Report This Post
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Picture of erj_pilot
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I pre-prime ALL my brass on my RCBS Pro2000. Yeah...it's designed to prime in station #2 as you reload, but I just find it better for me to pre-prime before running the brass through resizing, expanding/powder charging, powder check, bullet drop, seating, then crimping.



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 3517 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by erj_pilot:
I pre-prime ALL my brass on my RCBS Pro2000. Yeah...it's designed to prime in station #2 as you reload, but I just find it better for me to pre-prime before running the brass through resizing, expanding/powder charging, powder check, bullet drop, seating, then crimping.


I'm not familiar with the concept of pre-priming cases. Is that where you wash them before applying a primer coat?
 
Posts: 2502 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Report This Post
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Well it IS an art form with all that mud and tape. Razz



"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
 
Posts: 3517 | Location: NW Houston | Registered: April 04, 2012Report This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Well it IS an art form with all that mud and tape. Razz


Great, henceforth you will be known as the Paul Gauguin of cartridge reloading. The move to Tahiti is at your discretion.
 
Posts: 2502 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Report This Post
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Picture of jmorris
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Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzXnkuw54I4


Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.


Do you have a video of what they are talking about here?

quote:
Rotational drive system. Nearly all other priming tools on the market utilize a pivot drive system to provide leverage. The drawback with those systems is that the amount of force required to achieve the desired leverage changes through the tools range of motion. Unlike pivot-driven designs, the CPS provides an accurate and constant feel through the entire range of motion. This, combined with the extreme strength and rigidity of the CPS ensures that you will "feel" each primer as it is being seated. This is important so that worn out brass can be identified and culled when you feel a loose primer pocket.
 
Posts: 407 | Location: DFW | Registered: May 03, 2006Report This Post
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