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Sound and Fury |
That makes us even. As far as going home at the end of your shift. I have the same hope for you and every other officer. And I'm sure you know that your job puts you in much greater danger of being killed in a traffic accident than through violence (especially from a CHL holder). If I said the same thing about a CHL holder, it would be equally true. Reality is that you have a legal advantage because the law gives you the right to disarm me and not vice-versa. I'm not a cop, but I think it would be exceptionally foolish of you to rely on this legal inequality to affect your perception of safety. LEOs disarming CHL holders in the interest of officer safety (assuming nothing hinky going on) is right up there with business prohibited lawful concealed carry. ____________________________________________________________ "I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Adress, Jan. 11, 1989 Si vis pacem para bellum There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Feeding Trolls Since 1995 |
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I understand officers desires to disarm. They get a lot of circle talk. You say its legal but so did the last tom dick and harry. That said, I think some officers are a little jumpy.
If a citizen just told you they have a legal CCW when they don't have to, that's a pretty clear indication they're playing for your team. I would love to know if ever, in the history of America, an officer involved shooting has been preceded by a legal CCW acknowledging his CCW before opening fire. It just doesn't seem logical. I have been pulled over twice while carrying for traffic stuff, running a red light at 2am etc. I didn't say I had my CCW. If I was asked to leave the vehicle at any point I would tell the officer "I feel it important for both our safety to tell you I am legally carrying concealed and if you would like to disarm me you may." I would hope that would be enough to avoid some kind of hassle but some cops love the power trip and will surely do something unnecessary. |
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 I'll put my hood up against your hood anyday. I see absolutely no reason to take guns at traffic stops from legal CCWers whom have followed the law and told you they are armed CCWers, and are not acting suspiciously. If they are acting strange then it's fair game. If the vehicle has some interesting history in the system, I'd say fair game. If they are in the area of a crime that just happened and meet the description, same thing. Even if just the passengers are acting weird, I'd take it. But if they are following the law, besides the traffic infraction you have stopped them for, and are carrying legally and advise you of it, then you have absolutely no reason to take the gun. There is no statutory law or case law that I am aware of that allows you to take a CCWers gun under that situation. And why in the hell would you want to introduce an extra gun into the equation when it's in a safe place already? Keep the gun put up. If you are dumb enough to touch your gun you will be lucky to see mine before it spits fire. If they wanted to shoot you, they wouldn't tell you they had the farkin' gun. I've NEVER had a hood rat tell me he was carrying a gun before I took it off of him. And Paragon, I'd venture to bet that neither you nor many other members of the board would be caught in my hood.  I won't even drive through my hood (which is my entire district- 15 X 20 blocks of drug/gang area, with 5 housing projects in it-it's the real shit) unless I am on duty, with several guns, a vest, and backup at the other end of the radio.______________________________________________________________________ "A handgun is not there to strap on when you think it might be needed. If you think you'll need a gun, you bring a rifle and friends with more rifles. Either that, or you just don't go. A handgun is carried for every moment you don't think you'll need a gun." --Cliffy109, 5/26/06 |
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I'm sorry Dallas, but I have to argue this...at least the last paragraph...I'm not going to touch the rest... An officer taking a gun just for the sake of taking a gun is not comparable to a business prohibiting guns at all. Not one bit. A business is a private entity, normally on private property, and could ask you to do up-side down jumping jacks wearing a skirt to walk into their place and conduct business if they wanted to. It is your right to refuse to do this and go somewhere else. A police officer is an agent of the state, bound by the constitution to not violate your rights. Huge difference. Doesn't change what you are saying, but should be noted all the same. ______________________________________________________________________ "A handgun is not there to strap on when you think it might be needed. If you think you'll need a gun, you bring a rifle and friends with more rifles. Either that, or you just don't go. A handgun is carried for every moment you don't think you'll need a gun." --Cliffy109, 5/26/06 |
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Sound and Fury |
You are absolutely correct, and I should have been more clear. I only meant that I think the logic of a business prohibiting CHL holders from carrying on their premises is on the same level as an officer who says he's going to disarm every CHL he meets when we're talking about an otherwise uninteresting traffic stop. I don't know the law in NC, but here, the TX Gov't Code says "A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer’s official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual." I think that sets a pretty low bar that probably could be satisfied in a normal traffic stop, but like I said, in probably a dozen traffic stops (as driver and passenger) I've never been disarmed. ____________________________________________________________ "I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Adress, Jan. 11, 1989 Si vis pacem para bellum There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Feeding Trolls Since 1995 |
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How negligent on the part of the officer to set the weapon on a vehicles painted surface. Custom paint costs can easily enter five figures. One scratch can become very expensive for the officer and/or his department.
Disarming a criminal is rational, but disarming a licensed handgun carrier is not. All loaded weapons are more dangerous while being handled than when holstered or cased. I would imagine that research would show that the chances of a negligent discharge of an unknown weapon is greater than the chance the licensed individual has decided to become a cop killer. Another point to ponder is if the weapon discharged, injuring or killing the licensee, and you were holding it. It could be argued that you were negligent in your actions as there was no reason for your disarming the person. That would be an expensive civil issue and maybe criminal. Your safety? That statement is not one of a person sworn to protect the public. You seem to be overly selfish in your safety concerns. Screw the oath and screw the safety of the public? I know as much of anyone dressed as an officer as he does about me. I said dressed as an officer because uniforms can be bought and cars can be equipped like a patrol car. The criminal posing as an officer problem has happened here. That aside, an LEO is as human as anyone else, and has the temptation of criminal money and the human problem of becoming very mentally ill. Criminal activity can be found in every faction of society. You seem to be wary of everyone that carries a gun but think it's nonsense if a CHL holder is wary of cops. Another selfish attitude? ________________________________________________________________ soitenly - nyuk, nyuk, nyuk |
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Jeeze...from one end of the spectrum to the other in here, huh? If you honestly believe that a city cop wearing a city uniform with a belt full of city gear (including a talking radio) getting out of a city car, striped with decals and a light bar, is a fake...you're nuts. In the middle of the desert at 2am with an unmarked and a blue light, I can see your argument...but that's about the only time. I had a guy drive three blocks and park before he stopped for me one night. He parked at his house. He said he kept driving because he didn't feel safe stopping until he got to his house. Horseshit. He didn't stop because he knew his license was revoked, and he didn't want to have to leave his car somewhere...and I have ticketed him twice since for it. ______________________________________________________________________ "A handgun is not there to strap on when you think it might be needed. If you think you'll need a gun, you bring a rifle and friends with more rifles. Either that, or you just don't go. A handgun is carried for every moment you don't think you'll need a gun." --Cliffy109, 5/26/06 |
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If you are ever in my neck of the woods, I want to buy you a beer. |
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