Heck...cops get sued all the time for LEGITIMATELY doing their job. The smart ones aren't going to take a chance on getting sued for something they know is wrong. The not so smart ones aren't going to take a chance that their supervisor will find out that they were a dumbass...again.

quote:

Originally posted by Raidersrule:
Once everything was secured and I was just waiting to talk to the state trooper doing the report we talked guns.

Secured in what way?

quote:

Originally posted by racenet:

quote:

Originally posted by Raidersrule:
Once everything was secured and I was just waiting to talk to the state trooper doing the report we talked guns.

Secured in what way?

Yes, what way?

quote:

That said, if an officer disarms you, he DOES have the right if he can articulate in court his reasoning to do so.

Not if his "reasoning" isn't sound.

Meh...why take a gun that is already in a safe place, especially when nothing seems hinky? Sounds like a good way to get shot.

The only time I have ever taken a gun during a traffic stop, when there wasn't something hinky going on, as in for no real reason other than because I wanted to (besides the fact that we were in a high crime area, at 2am, and the guy had me thinking he was looking for somewhere to buy drugs, and I was alone--but that is seriously pretty much EVERY traffic stop I do in my district, so I don't consider it more hinkey than normal ) was a guy who had a revolver lying on the dash, and I figured I'd just hold on to it for a few, seeing as how it was already at my head-level and I figured he wouldn't mind.

When I brought it back (he wasn't looking for drugs after all-just trying to find his sister's house) I asked him just what the hell he expected to do when he brings his unloaded gun to a gunfight? And then advised him on some good self-defense rounds.

I have been pulled over more times then I can remember over the years. Its probably most due to that fact that I drive a lowered honda civic, but I don't have a fart can on it stock quiet exhaust. Still manage to attract the authorities though. Oh well...

Well to get to my point I have probably only been asked twice if I had any weapons in my car in all of these years. I gladly reply no considering I just got my permit this week to carry.

Do you guys get asked a lot if you have any weapons in your car?

quote:

Originally posted by goforbroke:
Do you guys get asked a lot if you have any weapons in your car?

Nope, not at all.

Got stopped recently...asked for registration and insurance. He already had my DL and CCW in his hands.

Told him to do that I would be gaining access to a loaded firearm. Told him I would open the console but allow him to remove the weapon before I collected the forms.

He obliged...set on top of roof...checked my documents...gave back my weapon...told me to have a nice day.

No stress...some of you guys overthink shit too much.

We don't have to disclose in vt.Vt does not issues ccw permits.If you can legally own the firearm you can legally carry concealed.
So no permit.No disclosure. nothing to tie my license to ccw .In all the times in the last 30 years.I have been stopped.Usually tailight or headlight type stuff.I have never been asked if I had any firearms in the vehicle.
I recall once during deer season being stopped for a tailight and my rifle was in the gunrack.
I think the comment from the officer was something like "seen any??" Do i just live in a hick state or Is this just not a big deal.

Couple of things I would consider:
1. You may have better instruction on the CCW laws than the officer. No joke. This is one small part of his job and the laws have been updated several times in many states. His understanding of the law may be limited or dated.

I wouldn't debate the law on the side of the street in the middle of the night. If you tell him your information patiently and peacefully, you give him room to move. Attempt to be judge and jury on the correctness of his actions and I believe there will be problems.

2. The officer just wants to get through the stop, keep you safe, keep himself in one piece and not lose his job.

My attempts to help with this goal have always been well received. In all probability, he won't want to touch your gun as it is an additional liability. Both for a seated person to pull it out under duress and his handling an unfamiliar firearm.

3. Officers spend a majority of their time looking for differences between someone's words and their body language because this is a big indicator incoming problem.

Communicate ALWAYS, OPENLY and as calmly as you can muster. This prevents a lot of problems. On this note, I would simply state the following:

"They talked about this in training, but instructed us to follow your lead. Could you instruct me how to surrender the weapon? I know if I do it wrong it's a felony (Ohio) and I really don't want to screw this up."

This puts the cop in the position to do what he does best, help out law abiding citizens. If you disagree with something, don't argue with him on the street. State your case and remember you are on camera. If you are carrying a pistol, you had better have a professional bearing. If someone wants to have a legally bad attitude, good luck. Your roadside impression may be reviewed by a jury of your peers.

I was recently pulled over by an Ohio State Patrolman. He was very professional as was I. At the end, he asked if I had every been pulled over while carrying. When I said no, he complimented me and said this was exactly how to do it. Then again, we aren't the people they are worried about


Paul

I look like I'm right off a "wanted" poster, but I've NEVER had an officer want disarm me. I would have a serious handling a loaded firearm safety issue if that happened.

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Paul:
I would simply state the following:

"They talked about this in training, but instructed us to follow your lead. Could you instruct me how to surrender the weapon? I know if I do it wrong it's a felony (Ohio) and I really don't want to screw this up."

Paul,

I can understand your point of view here, but really have issues with it. First and foremost, why right off the bat are you offering up to surrender your sidearm? That, to me, is crazy. If anything and if I had to, I would notify that I'm am carrying, where it is and inform that's where it wll stay for the duration of our interaction. Not willy nilly surrendering my sidearm for no reason. If you are legally carrying, then there is no reason what so ever for an officer to disarm you, unless you are being placed under arrest.

quote:

Originally posted by racenet:

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Paul:
I would simply state the following:

"They talked about this in training, but instructed us to follow your lead. Could you instruct me how to surrender the weapon? I know if I do it wrong it's a felony (Ohio) and I really don't want to screw this up."

Paul,

I can understand your point of view here, but really have issues with it. First and foremost, why right off the bat are you offering up to surrender your sidearm? That, to me, is crazy. If anything and if I had to, I would notify that I'm am carrying, where it is and inform that's where it wll stay for the duration of our interaction. Not willy nilly surrendering my sidearm for no reason. If you are legally carrying, then there is no reason what so ever for an officer to disarm you, unless you are being placed under arrest.

Racenet,

You make a goof point. My comment is stated (not so clearly) as a response to an officer requesting my sidearm. I didn't offer it to him, nor would I ever. I want nothing to do with touching the pistol during interaction with police. If asks, this is how I would respond.

In Ohio, the officer is absolutely within his rights to retain your sidearm during a traffic stop. At the end of the stop, he has two options, return the pistol or arrest you. Some people associate the request for the sidearm as the precursor to hands behind back. It is not strictly the case. I think this is known point of confusion and another reason officers aren't interested in taking responsibility for your sidearm.

Sorry for the confusion,
Paul

quote:

Originally posted by bobby lee:
1) As an attorney (in Virginia and federal courts only) and a certified NRA instructor, I tell people exactly the same thing that you heard in your class.

2) Never, ever, under any circumstances should you touch a firearm in the presence of police. Never. Ever. I would not invite the cop to take it from you, though. He may insist that he will do so, but don't agree to it, just don't create any difficulties. Don't resist, be co-operative, but do not touch the gun yourself. "I appreciate your concern for your safety, Officer, but I have done nothing to suggest any threat to you, nor will I do so. I have been instructed never to touch a weapon in the presence of a police officer, and I intend to follow that rule." Check with a local attorney and make sure there's no legal reason why you must surrender your gun.

3) By the way, the taking of personal property from the person of another without a sound legal justification is grand larceny in Virginia, good for twenty years in the Spring Street Hotel, not to mention civil damages. I worked on a case in which the cop took the gun away and emptied the cartridges and threw the (Corbon) cartridges into the underbrush. He gave the gun back, but not the cartridges. Ooops, that was grand larceny. And mere "fear for one's life", without objective basis in fact for the reasonable apprehension of an immediate threat of serious bodily injury is not a sound legal justification. You're not responsible for anyone else's fears that you did nothing overtly to create.

1) Wow this post just oozes bad advice. Unbelieveable that it is coming from an "attorney."

2) Go ahead and tell the officer how to do his job too and while your at it, ask him where his hat is and to see his radar gun too, cuz "it's the law." If he asks you to hand him the gun, HAND IT TO HIM. You won't win that arguement on the side of the street and you just GAURANTEED yourself a ticket or three for lack of cooperation.

3) Grand Larceny? Really? For asking to temporarily hold the gun till the end of the traffic stop? Good luck finding a state attorney to jump on that failboat.

As a North Carolina LEO, if I encounter someone on a stop that is armed, I disarm them. A lot of this however is due to me working late at night and in a high drug/crime area. If you touch your gun, you will see mine. It's nothing personal but you have to remember that I don't know you, who you are, or what your intentions are. For all I know you could have just robbed a gas station or murdered someone. Once the stop is done, I will gladly leave your firearm in your trunk, unloaded, leave, and if you want to retrieve it and reload it then that's fine by me.

Before anyone flames me, I am pro CCW for citizens, but I want to go home at the end of my shift. Like I said before it's nothiing personal, and if you argue about it or give me any kind of resistance, verbal included, the encouter is going to go downhill fast because it is my safety that I am dealing with.

Taking your gun for the duration of a stop is not larceny as some attorney posted above, it is officer safety. Throwing the rounds out is just stupid though.. There's no way I would do that. I give it all back, usually separated.

If I were to be pulled over, I would not object for an officer treating me the same way. You are at an advantage during the stop which the officer is not. You know that the officer is not a threat to you as long as you cooperate and have done nothing wrong.

As an added note... Most legit CCW's dont run into me. I have only delt with one on a traffic stop and his gun was returned to him and we chatted. All the rest of the guns I have encountered have been illegally carried and end up in evidence.

quote:

Originally posted by matt86:
As a North Carolina LEO, if I encounter someone on a stop that is armed, I disarm them. A lot of this however is due to me working late at night and in a high drug/crime area. If you touch your gun, you will see mine. It's nothing personal but you have to remember that I don't know you, who you are, or what your intentions are. For all I know you could have just robbed a gas station or murdered someone. Once the stop is done, I will gladly leave your firearm in your trunk, unloaded, leave, and if you want to retrieve it and reload it then that's fine by me.

This last is where you lose me completely. So here I am coming thru a high crime area, late at night, with no nefarious purpose. Just passing thru, and my tail light is out. So you stop me and take my gun. Once you do your thing, you leave my gun, separated from its ammo, in the trunk. So who in the neighborhood (high crime area) has seen you place a gun in my trunk, and then leave me to my own devices?

So I have to get out of the relative safety of my car, open the trunk, grab/load the gun, and hope no one runs up on me during that moment.

I really hate that idea. The officer isn't the only one who wants to go home in one piece.

I'm a law-abiding citizen, yet I am not treated that way?

quote:

Originally posted by Paragon:

quote:

Originally posted by matt86:
As a North Carolina LEO, if I encounter someone on a stop that is armed, I disarm them. A lot of this however is due to me working late at night and in a high drug/crime area. If you touch your gun, you will see mine. It's nothing personal but you have to remember that I don't know you, who you are, or what your intentions are. For all I know you could have just robbed a gas station or murdered someone. Once the stop is done, I will gladly leave your firearm in your trunk, unloaded, leave, and if you want to retrieve it and reload it then that's fine by me.

This last is where you lose me completely. So here I am coming thru a high crime area, late at night, with no nefarious purpose. Just passing thru, and my tail light is out. So you stop me and take my gun. Once you do your thing, you leave my gun, separated from its ammo, in the trunk. So who in the neighborhood (high crime area) has seen you place a gun in my trunk, and then leave me to my own devices?

So I have to get out of the relative safety of my car, open the trunk, grab/load the gun, and hope no one runs up on me during that moment.

I really hate that idea. The officer isn't the only one who wants to go home in one piece.

I'm a law-abiding citizen, yet I am not treated that way?

Exactly, matt86 should consider this because if such does happen next time then he IS liable. I believe I have seen a writeup on such a case that has come up before, maybe one of the handy lawyers can find it in lexis and make sure I'm not just misremembering a legal opinion piece.

I asked a Mesa AZ leo this , he said to verbally commuunicate.
don't touch anything , keep your hands in view. just talk to him.

don't pull your jacket to the side ,don't lift the center console lid, don't open the glove box.

move your lips ,not your hips.

moving means that you have physical intentions, talking means you are trying to communicate.

Its a control thing, they appreciate it when you let them be in control.
do what they like for 6 minutes or have them hanging arund for forty minutes , its up to you.

quote:

Originally posted by matt86:
As a North Carolina LEO,

Durham?

BTW, the lawyer wasn't saying taking the gun during the stop is grand larceny. The grand larceny is taking the bullets and throwing them into the underbrush (in VA grand larceny minimum value is $5 if taken from the person of another)

Oklahoma law says we have to tell the officer about our CCW when we come in contact with them. It goes on to say that the Leo cannot ask to inspect or confiscate your weapon without probable cause a crime has been committed. Our class instructor told us to keep our hands in plain sight, answer all questions calmly, do not make any sudden moves and follow the officer's instructions.