Have a question regarding handling a gun when an officer pulls you over. In NC you have to disclose a CCW, which is OK with me, but what do you do if he asks for you firearm?

My CCW instructor told us to never touch your gun in front of an officer. If he asks, just politely tell him you will NOT touch your gun, but HE is welcome to take the gun (from your holster, the center console, etc.).

Thoughts on this?

Jeez. An ultimatum? Nah.

Just tell the officer you'll cooperate, where it's located, and ask HIM how to proceed.

It'll work out satisfactorily for both parties.

Perhaps tell the officer that you have a phobia of being shot by a police officer or his partner who thinks you are drawing with aggressive intent.

Mistakes happen. Don't be one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by mtb996:
Have a question regarding handling a gun when an officer pulls you over. In NC you have to disclose a CCW, which is OK with me, but what do you do if he asks for you firearm?

My CCW instructor told us to never touch your gun in front of an officer. If he asks, just politely tell him you will NOT touch your gun, but HE is welcome to take the gun (from your holster, the center console, etc.).

Thoughts on this?

Always follow your local law if it gives specific direction.

In Texas an officer has the right to disarm you during a traffic stop or other encounter, but the law does not specify the disarming.

I would not refuse to "touch" your firearm as it might make the officer feel you are being cocky as in "get it yourself".

If an officer ever asked to disarm me, I would state where the firearm is located and ask if he/she would like me to hand it to them or if they prefer to retrieve it. That way it is their decision based on the circumstances.

I would tell him the location of the firearm (i.e. "On my right hip.") and ask if the officer wants you to remove it and make it safe. Generally, the officer will appreciate this behavior. He may still remove it him or herself, but if you ask for direction you won't make yourself to appear a threat.

That would be my advice.


Kevin

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Jeez. An ultimatum? Nah.

Just tell the officer you'll cooperate, where it's located, and ask HIM how to proceed.

It'll work out satisfactorily for both parties.

Pretty much it.

I never understood the whole "disarming" thing. Maybe I am naive, and I understand evil can get a permit, but I kinda look at citizens with permits as being no more of an issue that any other traffic stop. Every traffic stop has at least two guns involved. Mine. Why remove another from someones (someone who has went to the significant trouble of getting a permit) holster? Murphy will show up eventually.

If anything, I think me taking the gun from its owner, unloading it, blah, blah, blah puts more of a liability on me. What if the permit holder shoots himself in the leg while reloading it?????? It has happened before. Recently.

I say keep it in the holster, don't play with it, and there is no issue.

As an attorney (in Virginia and federal courts only) and a certified NRA instructor, I tell people exactly the same thing that you heard in your class.

Never, ever, under any circumstances should you touch a firearm in the presence of police. Never. Ever.

I would not invite the cop to take it from you, though. He may insist that he will do so, but don't agree to it, just don't create any difficulties. Don't resist, be co-operative, but do not touch the gun yourself.

"I appreciate your concern for your safety, Officer, but I have done nothing to suggest any threat to you, nor will I do so. I have been instructed never to touch a weapon in the presence of a police officer, and I intend to follow that rule."

Check with a local attorney and make sure there's no legal reason why you must surrender your gun.

By the way, the taking of personal property from the person of another without a sound legal justification is grand larceny in Virginia, good for twenty years in the Spring Street Hotel, not to mention civil damages. I worked on a case in which the cop took the gun away and emptied the cartridges and threw the (Corbon) cartridges into the underbrush. He gave the gun back, but not the cartridges. Ooops, that was grand larceny.

And mere "fear for one's life", without objective basis in fact for the reasonable apprehension of an immediate threat of serious bodily injury is not a sound legal justification. You're not responsible for anyone else's fears that you did nothing overtly to create.

(The Virginia penitentiary in Richmond is no longer on Spring Street in Richmond, they built a new one about twenty years ago.)

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Jeez. An ultimatum? Nah.

Just tell the officer you'll cooperate, where it's located, and ask HIM how to proceed.

It'll work out satisfactorily for both parties.

Pretty much it.

I never understood the whole "disarming" thing. Maybe I am naive, and I understand evil can get a permit, but I kinda look at citizens with permits as being no more of an issue that any other traffic stop. Every traffic stop has at least two guns involved. Mine. Why remove another from someones (someone who has went to the significant trouble of getting a permit) holster? Murphy will show up eventually.

If anything, I think me taking the gun from its owner, unloading it, blah, blah, blah puts more of a liability on me. What if the permit holder shoots himself in the leg while reloading it?????? It has happened before. Recently.

I say keep it in the holster, don't play with it, and there is no issue.

Best advise yet.I have run over this scenario
in my mind many times.
We don't need to disclose here.But if asked
one does not want to get shot handing the LEO
your gun.They have a dangerous job.
I think leaving it be is the best course.
But again it is totally at the officers disgression.Let him tell you how to proceed.
That way there will be no surprises.
Make sure his partner knows whats going on
also.I can see the partner looking over at the wrong time and seeing you reaching for a gun.

You'll find in NC they tell you to leave it in the holster, and if they want it they'll take it themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby lee:
"I appreciate your concern for your safety, Officer, but I have done nothing to suggest any threat to you, nor will I do so. I have been instructed never to touch a weapon in the presence of a police officer, and I intend to follow that rule."

Exactly who drafted and legislated that rule?

I don't se the big issue here, and would far prefer that the gun remain safely in the holster for the duration. But stuff like this is making a mountain out of a molehill. If I ask, or have to order, someone to take a handgun out of the holster and secure it, the odds of them getting shot are non-existent, assuming that the don't try to hand it to me barrel first. If someone refuses a lawful order, that actually can constitute a criminal offense. If someone tells me literally to come and get it, what am I supposed to think? That they AREN'T trying to sucker me in close for an assault? That I'm going to go against every bit of training and experience I have and try to physically remove an item from them without them being cuffed, or at least in a position of disadvantage? Is that REALLY what a CCW instructor wants to teach their students - to exacerbate a simple stop to that point?

I can understand a lawyer teaching this, It probably generates a fair amount of business.

Ok, now the onslaught of wailing over the woes of "illegal seizure" can commence.

I guess it depends on the Officer. In Kentucky anytime you run a plate thru dispatch or on your MDT the registered owner comes back with CCDW info. I work with a bunch of high speed guys and we don't freak over CCDW permits, since the bad guys almost NEVER have them (Ever).
I got stopped in Oklahoma not too long ago and told the Trooper that I was an off duty Police Officer and that I was armed, by his unusual reaction you would have that I told him I was wearing a suicide vest witha dead mans switch on it.

Lucky for VA CCW permit holders, we are not required to inform the LEO. Granted, there are certain situations where I will inform, but not always.

On a routine traffic stop, there is no way the LEO will detect my CCW, unless it's Clark Kent using X-ray vision. Because unless they can see through me, the car, or the seat, it isn't going to happen. So unless they ask me to step out of the car or it becomes something other than a routine traffic stop, I'm not telling them. And a couple of weeks ago everything went just fine and LEO went on her merry way...

And I'm aware that other states the law is different and when in those states, would comply by informing the LEO. And if the LEO wants to take my firearm, they'll have to do it themselves. I'll be polite, courteous, but thats that.

The Oklahoma thing really suprised me as I grew up in Oklahoma, my dad was (is) a cop down that way, he too is a LE firearms instructor etc. A bunch of our family friends were Troopers, Deputies and Officers and as best I can remember they were ALL very progun. While I was seated in the Troopers car he did confide in me that he was raised in the North Eastern part of the country, so maybe it was just his backwards upbringing.

mtb,

I may be naive, I may just be boring, maybe I am fooling myself, but why would you be pulled over?

I have been driving since about 1964. I have seen the blue lights in the rearview mirror exactly three times. I have been stopped at a license/insurance check about four times. All of these stops were more than 7 years ago.

Why is everybody worried about this? Are you continually attracting that sort of attention?

Me either, but if you are, you might consider being more cautious. What would we get if we did a poll of age distribution on this forum? Maybe a lot of 21-36 year old dudes (and dudettes)? Exactly the sort of people that police officers come across in their duties?

Anyway, just in case, I asked a senior Highway Patrol Officer what he would like to have happen in the perfect CWP traffic stop. He turned the question around and asked me what I would want if I were an officer making a stop.

My top four were:

1. I want to see both hands on the wheel as much as possible, minimum of one even when getting license, insurance, and registration.

2. Engine off, if at night, the interior lights on.

3. No sudden moves.

4. No seatbelt release. (Most people’s strong side is right, the driver’s seatbelt release side.)

He told me that my list was not bad. He also pointed out that officers make their living reading people’s demeanor. Overly nervous or “shifty” behavior stimulates the threat antenna. So does evasive replies, and strangely, so does messy automobile interiors! (I guess the assumption is that all BGs are slobs, maybe this is true.) Anybody who seems like he is a hot-head overly stimulates the threat antenna.

KLW

quote:

Originally posted by mtb996:
Have a question regarding handling a gun when an officer pulls you over. In NC you have to disclose a CCW, which is OK with me, but what do you do if he asks for you firearm?

My CCW instructor told us to never touch your gun in front of an officer. If he asks, just politely tell him you will NOT touch your gun, but HE is welcome to take the gun (from your holster, the center console, etc.).

Thoughts on this?

Not exactly correct...

An officer may disarm IF he reasonably believes it is neccesary for his safety, your safety, or that of others... In short he needs to be able to articulate WHY he felt it neccesary.

That is not a blanked authority to disarm...

OF course you would want to argue the case afterward, not on the street.

FWIW

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Perhaps tell the officer that you have a phobia of being shot by a police officer or his partner who thinks you are drawing with aggressive intent.

Mistakes happen. Don't be one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by StorminNormin:

quote:

Originally posted by mtb996:
Have a question regarding handling a gun when an officer pulls you over. In NC you have to disclose a CCW, which is OK with me, but what do you do if he asks for you firearm?

My CCW instructor told us to never touch your gun in front of an officer. If he asks, just politely tell him you will NOT touch your gun, but HE is welcome to take the gun (from your holster, the center console, etc.).

Thoughts on this?

Always follow your local law if it gives specific direction.

In Texas an officer has the right to disarm you during a traffic stop or other encounter, but the law does not specify the disarming.

I would not refuse to "touch" your firearm as it might make the officer feel you are being cocky as in "get it yourself".

If an officer ever asked to disarm me, I would state where the firearm is located and ask if he/she would like me to hand it to them or if they prefer to retrieve it. That way it is their decision based on the circumstances.

Did you get to watch that video in your class? I have had a few interactions with LEOs in Texas while armed. None ever wanted to disarm me, so it hasn't come up, but if it did, my guess is he would tell me what he wanted to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Lucky for VA CCW permit holders, we are not required to inform the LEO. Granted, there are certain situations where I will inform, but not always.

On a routine traffic stop, there is no way the LEO will detect my CCW, unless it's Clark Kent using X-ray vision. Because unless they can see through me, the car, or the seat, it isn't going to happen. So unless they ask me to step out of the car or it becomes something other than a routine traffic stop, I'm not telling them. And a couple of weeks ago everything went just fine and LEO went on her merry way...

And I'm aware that other states the law is different and when in those states, would comply by informing the LEO. And if the LEO wants to take my firearm, they'll have to do it themselves. I'll be polite, courteous, but thats that.

You do realize that when he runs your driver's license it will come back "gun permit," right? Now, maybe it's the part of VA I'm in, but none of the cops here that I know mind if your lawfully carried CCW stays on you.

quote:

Originally posted by Dallas239:
Did you get to watch that video in your class? I have had a few interactions with LEOs in Texas while armed. None ever wanted to disarm me, so it hasn't come up, but if it did, my guess is he would tell me what he wanted to happen.

I don't recall that video specifically, but I have been encountered by state and local PD MANY times while I am doing surveillance and I have always let them know I am a CHL holder and where my firearm is located. None have ever asked me to disarm and most begin asking about what I carry out of curiosity.

I agree, if they want you to disarm they are going to tell you how they would like you to do it and I would follow their instruction.

Ask the officer how he would like to have it presented. He'll tell you.

I've go though those wonderful 'drunk stops'/registration stops where every car is stopped.

case one, local police - asked where the firarm was - panel of driver's door. Officer "leave it there and we'll get along fine."

Case two, county sherrif - no comment from officer.

Case three - State officer asked if I got the permit for protection or sport (might not be his exact words). I said 'why do you ask?" He said he was just generally curious and I said 'probably a little of both. He said ‘that what most people say.”

Odd situation and ended up directing traffic at an accident scene. State Patrol office walked up to ask me to continue. As he approached I told him I was a permit holder and had a concealed weapon. He acted bored – said OK and said OK.


Bottom line – Unless you are doing something to put you under suspicion - I don’t think you’ll have any officer interested in disarming you.

'