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Tactics: When the Police arrive, they may not understand that you are a good guy or victim Login/Join 
Member
posted Hide Post
Do what the police tell you to do, when and how they tell you to do it.

Their orders will be clear and concise.

Don't act stupid and you won't get shot.
 
Posts: 5914 | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frequent Denizen
of the Twilight Zone
Picture of SIGWolf
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Once the cops arrive it would seem prudent to refrain from touching a firearm and to assume some sort of non-threatening position.

It is absolutely the case that the cops don't know you the way you know you and you shouldn't expect them to. You know you're a good guy, but they don't know you from jack.

I think that goes for any encounter with the police. You just can't assume they will immediately see you as you see yourself and know yourself to be. That is especially the case in a tense situation where they know or have reason to expect there are shots fired. They have to react based on what they see in split seconds. You don't want to even appear to present any kind of threat.

I read recently of two men who stopped an active shooter. The shooter was already down when the police arrived, but, of course, they cuffed everyone. They didn't know who was who or who did what to whom. After it was sorted out, the two guys were considered heroes, but in the moment, they could have been part of the threat.
 
Posts: 17085 | Location: Northern Vermont | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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See my next post for BAC level.

https://www.oregonlive.com/por...rs_psu_officers.html

Portland State University cops won't be charged in killing of Navy vet

Updated 3:26 PM; Posted Sep 13, 5:18 PM

A Multnomah County grand jury on Thursday declined to indict two Portland State University police officers involved in a shooting that killed a man outside a bar, an incident that ignited protests and rekindled calls to end the school's policy of arming its public safety force.

Officers Shawn McKenzie and James Dewey will not face criminal charges in the death of Jason Washington, 45, the Multnomah County District Attorney's Office said in a news release.

Campus police killed Washington, a U.S. postal worker and Navy veteran, while he tried to break up a fight near the Cheerful Tortoise just before closing time on June 29.

The encounter marked the first fatal shooting by the university's police force, which began carrying guns three years ago in a decision decried by activists and some students. The Portland Police Bureau investigated Washington's death.

Portland State's student union plans to hold a rally on Sept. 24 at the school's Park Blocks, calling on the university to stop allowing campus police officers to carry firearms.

Portland State University President Rahmat Shoureshi said the university plans to have separate, independent reviews of the shooting and of campus security as a whole. He said the school is finalizing contracts with the OIR Group, a California-based police oversight and review firm, for the shooting analysis and Vermont-based consulting group Margolis Healy for the campus safety review.

Shoureshi said he had no timeline on when the reviews would be complete.

Public forums and student surveys are planned as part of the campus safety overview process, Shoureshi said. The findings of both reviews will be released to the public when they are complete.

McKenzie and Dewey will be taken off paid administrative leave due to the grand jury ruling, Shoureshi said. Both will be placed on desk duty, which will be re-evaluated based on the review findings, he said.

McKenzie has been with campus public safety since 2002 and Dewey since 2014. Both became armed sworn officers in 2016 and will still carry firearms while not on patrol.

The university has 12 sworn police officers and a chief of police who are all armed, according to the university. The school also has other six public safety officers who are unarmed because they aren't sworn police officers.

McKenzie and Dewey were wearing body cameras during the shooting and the footage will be released on a later date, the university said.

Michelle Washington, Jason's widow, said she and other family members appreciated the grand jury members' service but were disappointed with their ruling.

"We want those responsible for the death of my husband to be held accountable," she said in a statement. "We will always remember and love Jason and know he was needlessly killed while attempting to keep the peace."

Christopher Larsen, the family's attorney, said his team now plans to review all the evidence in the shooting with the intent of pursuing legal action.

Shoureshi said he hasn't spoken directly to Washington's family since the shooting, but he said he has expressed his condolences to them through school officials who have reached out to family representatives.

During the chaotic scuffle in June, a holstered handgun Washington was legally carrying fell onto the ground and he was shot while apparently trying to pick it up, witnesses said.

Washington's death came during a brief but divisive history with arming campus officers.

Police at the school first began carrying guns on July 1, 2015, after a 2014 Board of Trustees vote in favor of deploying some officers with guns.

The vote was a controversial one among the campus community, especially for the student group Disarm PSU.

Shoureshi said in a statement earlier Wednesday that Washington's death "has deeply shaken all those involved as well as the greater campus community."

"We are determined to learn from it," the statement said.

In a separate statement, the university's Board of Trustees said it was prepared to revisit the policy around armed campus cops "with open minds — to determine whether the current policy should be continued or changed."


Everton Bailey Jr. of The Oregonian/OregonLive staff contributed to this report.

-- Shane Dixon Kavanaugh
skavanaugh@oregonian.com
503-294-7632 || @shanedkavanaugh


==========================================================================

Body cam footage here:

https://www.oregonlive.com/por...university_vide.html
 
Posts: 13327 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As many of us suspected, alcohol was a factor. Is "0.242 g/dL" the same as 3x the legal limit (in most states) of .08?

https://www.opb.org/news/artic...rt-jason-washington/

Police Report Shows Jason Washington Died Holding His Friend's Gun

by Ericka Cruz Guevarra Follow , Conrad Wilson Follow , and Amelia Templeton Follow OPB Sept. 14, 2018 3:15 p.m. | Updated: Sept. 14, 2018 4:22 p.m.

Jason Washington was shot by police in June carrying a gun that wasn’t his, according to records released by the Portland Police Bureau on Friday.

Portland State University officers arrived outside the Cheerful Tortoise bar in downtown Portland to an alcohol-fueled brawl among men who had been drinking heavily for hours while bouncing between several bars.

Washington, a Navy veteran and postal worker, had met two friends at the Cheerful Tortoise on the afternoon of Thursday, June 28.

Hours later, one of his friends handed Washington a handgun he’d been carrying.

Washington’s friend, who had already shoved a bouncer earlier in the evening, was drunk and told Washington he wanted to fight the men he had been arguing with at the Cheerful Tortoise.

They’d had so much alcohol that they were cut off from being served more drinks at one of the bars they’d gone to that day. A toxicology report shows Washington’s blood alcohol level was at 0.242 g/dL when he died.

“I told Jason that, you know, these guys are gonna fight, ‘cause we’re not avoiding it,” said Jeremy Wilkinson, Washington’s friend, according to a police report. “I said I’ll go do it and I took my, my, my gun and my holster and gave it to Jason.”

That gun — 9mm Walther PPQ pistol — would play a role in Washington’s death at the hands of two PSU police officers.

Law enforcement’s criminal investigation records and body camera footage from PSU Officers James Dewey and Shawn McKenzie released Friday revealed new details of the moments leading up to what would become the first campus officer-involved shooting at PSU. University leaders armed its officers in a controversial 2014 vote.

The videos and documents come one day after a Multnomah County grand jury decided not to charge Dewey and McKenzie. The grand jury determined the fatal shooting was a lawful act of self-defense and/or the defense of a third person.

Multnomah County grand juries have repeatedly exonerated officers for using deadly force while on duty, including the shooting at a Portland homeless shelter in April and the February 2017 death of an African-American teen.

Ryan Pratt, one of the friends out with Washington, told officers he met up with Wilkinson at his apartment at 2 p.m. Thursday afternoon. The two of them took an Uber to the Cheerful Tortoise to meet Washington. The three have been friends since their time in the Navy together.

Pratt told police the three men had been drinking heavily all afternoon and into the evening.

“While at the Cheerful Tortoise they all had beers before walking to Buffalo Wild Wings to watch the Oregon State Beavers baseball game,” wrote homicide detective Todd Gradwahl who interviewed Pratt in his truck after the shooting.

“While at Buffalo Wild Wings they each had two shots of Pendleton Whiskey and one or two beers. They stayed at Buffalo Wild Wings until the game finished,” he wrote.

The game finished around 7:30 p.m. Afterward, the three men walked to the pool hall and betting lounge Rialto, where they had “one or two beers,” according to Pratt.

Pratt declined to provide further comment when contacted by OPB.

Detectives interviewed Derrial Peterson, the security guard at the betting lounge, a week after the shooting.

Peterson said he remembered Washington well, and that the two of them discussed their families that night.

“Washington described his love for his family and how things were going well for him right now,” the detectives wrote.

Peterson also told detectives that Washington appeared to be less intoxicated than his friend Wilkinson.

“Jason Washington told him that he needs to keep his wits about him because he never knows what is going to happen with Jeremy Wilkinson,” Peterson said.

The bartender said he was cutting both men off from being served any more alcohol. Wilkinson continued to drink his beer.

Peterson told police he intervened at that point and suggested to Wilkinson that he pay and leave.

Peterson tried to take Wilkinson’s beer. Wilkinson responded by wiping his wet hand on the bouncer, which prompted the bouncer to shove him to the ground.

At that point, according to Pratt, Wilkinson pulled up his shirt and showed the bouncer the firearm on his hip.

“I have one too,” Wilkinson said.

“I have one too,” the bouncer said.

According to the investigation, this is the same gun that would end up in Washington’s possession and prompt PSU officers to shoot.

As they left, “Mr. Peterson said he could hear Jason Washington chastising his friend about always getting them in trouble and asking him why he couldn’t just keep his mouth shut,” detectives wrote.

Having been cut off at the pool room, the men returned to the Cheerful Tortoise where they continued to drink and began arguing with people inside.

The argument continued outside.

At this point, Washington took possession of Wilkinson’s gun, holstering it to his hip. Wilkinson said he then began to fight with men outside the bar.

Body camera footage shows the two officers arriving in the midst of the drunken brawl early on June 29.

Washington can be seen on the tape attempting to stop several men from brawling. He’s seen with his arms extended attempting to keep the men apart.

The incident escalates when Wilkinson pushes another man to the ground and punches him. Washington is among the first to respond.

“Sir, sir,” Officer Dewey can be heard saying as he grabs Washington’s arm. “I got to have you back up.”

Washington, who had a valid concealed carry permit, pulls a man up from out of the pack and falls to the ground.

“He’s got a gun,” someone can be heard saying, referring to the gun on Washington’s hip. Washington gets up and walks away from the fight.

It’s unclear in the video whether he has the gun in his hand.

“Drop the gun!” an officer yells several times. “We’ll shoot you!”

One second after that warning, Officer McKenzie shoots.

Wilkinson can be seen in the video, lying next to Washington’s body. The police report shows Washington had sustained gunshot wounds in right knee, his back, left chest, the right side of his neck and left cheek.

Wilkinson tries to get up and stumbles, falling to the ground.

“Holy sh** Michelle’s going to kill me,” Wilkinson later told police, referring to Washington’s wife. “I gave him my gun. He got in trouble for that, oh my gosh.”
 
Posts: 13327 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
still exist
posted Hide Post
quote:
A toxicology report shows Washington’s blood alcohol level was at 0.242 g/dL when he died.


Oh, well, fuck him then. Just a drunk with a gun. More than 3 times the legal driving limit in Oregon.

What an ass. What a complete ass. What a lack of common sense.

And to think there are demands to disarm the police over this jerk.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: radioman,


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Posts: 7206 | Location: Sunset Highway MP37, then turn South | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
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quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
There is a situation unfolding in Portland, OR where it seems a good guy was shot by the police when his CCW gun fell out of its holster, and he went to retrieve it. We don't have all the facts, the situation just occurred less than 48 hour ago, and it's way to early to place any blame, if any exists.

here is what is unfolding: A group of friends gets attacked which is common in Portland. One of the "good guys" had his gun fall out of its holster during the attack. The cops have shown up by this time and are just starting to sort things out. Suddenly they see the CCW holder go to retrieve the gun that fell out of its holster. The cops open fire and kill the good guy because they just didn't understand who he was who and what had happened.

The video seems to have audio where the cop is just yelling "GUN" for about 1/2 second, and then the cop starts shooting.

some links showing what we know so far...
video of shooting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPN3QoMBvo
http://katu.com/news/local/fri...as-loving-father-vet
https://www.kgw.com/article/ne...es-say/283-569090275



and to think I started this thread. I'm now quite embarrassed Red Face Amazing how things changed once the facts were in. Like the BAC of the supposed "victim"

I'm also going to call out the original news links in the original post as FAKE NEWS!!!


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Posts: 7206 | Location: Sunset Highway MP37, then turn South | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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Here's the full bodycam footage:




Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHU0cmHviH0

-Carrying a concealed handgun while drunk is illegal everywhere I know of, even with a CHL.
-BAC of 0.242, which would have meant he was seriously intoxicated and heavily impaired.
-Reportedly pulled the gun on the opposing group prior to the arrival of police.
-Ignored police commands to stay back, and reinserted himself back into the fight even after the cops got there.
-Ignored further commands from police to drop the gun, which he apparently had retrieved (or was trying to retrieve) after it fell out of the holster during his continued scuffling.

(Unfortunately, the last few seconds are just off camera, so we can't tell from the video what specific action(s) on his part precipitated the officers opening fire. The full report should be available at some point in the future.)

Also note how the guy in the camo, who was so quick once the cops showed up to repeatedly holler that the dude had pointed a gun at them, was also the first to start cursing and screaming at the cops for "killing for him for no reason".


quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
I'm looking to the forum to provide more answers on how to avoid getting shot when your CCW weapon becomes a factor when you are getting attacked, and the police arrive.


We'll start with:
1) Don't break the law,
2) Don't drink so much booze that you lose control,
3) Don't get into stupid arguments and brawls at bars,
4) Follow police commands,
5) Stop fiddling with your gun once the cops are there, and
6) Once the cops arrive and you're able to disengage, let them handle it.
 
Posts: 21453 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fonky Honky
Picture of wildheartedson0105
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Good summary, Rogue. So many ways the situation could have been avoided, from beginning to end.


_________________________________________
Dei. Familia. Patria. Victoria.

Don't back up, don't back down.
 
Posts: 3160 | Location: Badger, Badger, Badger! | Registered: October 01, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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quote:
Originally posted by Sigmund:


"We want those responsible for the death of my husband to be held accountable," she said in a statement.


Seems to me the sole person responsible for his death has been held accountable. He's dead, and that is about as accountable as one can get.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 32006 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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Nah. They'll just widen their finger-pointing (and civil suits) to include the bartenders that served him, the bouncer that didn't stop him from carrying a gun, and the members of the opposing group who participated in the fight, in addition to the police who "shot him for no reason".

Oh, and don't forget the holster maker, for that holster not having enough retention.

It's everyone else's fault, y'know. He was a perfect angel.
 
Posts: 21453 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
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And in the news of the crazy, there is a "rally" today to disarm the entire campus police force because of this guy...

https://katu.com/news/local/ps...n-first-day-of-class

"Some student activists said they believe the university is trying to forget about the incident,"

Ya think.

"PSU is conducting their own investigation into what happened."

That's full of fail right from the start. They already had a grand jury on it, where they found the guy was more than 3 times over the legally drunk BAC. Enough already.

If they're worried about campus shootings etc, An unarmed police force is about as effective as a fire-fly in a forest fire.


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Posts: 7206 | Location: Sunset Highway MP37, then turn South | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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