I have no ax to grind and don't really care that much, but I find it kinda ironic that many threads denounce the local Denny's or whatever for signage saying no firearms, yet I've never been in a gun shop or range that didn't loudly proclaim itself offlimits to loaded gun toters. I'm curious as to the reasoning. As a (non-gun-related) business owner I would prefer people not come into my business with firearms since a) I don't know them and don't know that they are proficient and b) I'm armed so I don't feel the need for their protection and c) I would worry about someone getting injured if a gun went off due to unsafe handling and me being liable if I knew about it. So I can see why a gun store owner would prefer to ban loaded guns from his shop. But if we're alright with that, why do we get mad at the Denny's manager?

Thoughts?

NGB

I've been in at least a half dozen gun stores in the last few years, and none of them had any kind of ban on carrying inside. I'm very surprised that you've had this experience.

Typical wording in this area (Atlanta) is: "This is a cold range. All handguns must be unloaded and slides locked open." I only frequent 5 shops, but all have similar pronouncements. 4 are ranges, 1 is only a shop.

quote:

Originally posted by NoGaBiker:
Typical wording in this area (Atlanta) is: "This is a cold range. All handguns must be unloaded and slides locked open." I only frequent 5 shops, but all have similar pronouncements. 4 are ranges, 1 is only a shop.

Most of the times these signs are put up for those coming in to trade/sell, or use the range. They don't want any gun that will inevitably be handled to be loaded unless it is on the line.

As far as not allowing carry in your own business, I'm not okay with it (whether it's Denny's or the local gun shop), and I wouldn't frequent a place in which my firearm is unwelcome.

I'd ask the management. They might not care as long as your gun stays in it's holster.

Harbinger: are you saying you agree with the practice of forbidding loaded gun carry in gun shops (paragraph 1 of your post) or that you disagree with it? (paragraph 2) or that you think we should have to make special arrangements with gunshops, Denny's, etc. when we want to carry? Paragraph 3)

Thanks,

NGB

These policies are made to not allow a loaded gun in a case in the shop. In other words they don't want an employee being handed a loaded gun to inspect for trade/repair. I absolutely disagree with any business banning my ability to carry concealed.

I completely understand and agree with no loaded guns (unless they're being carried for self-defense). However, denying my right to defend myself is something I am highly opposed to.

So how would you word the signs in a gunshop? They don't distinguish between the two purposes of having a gun in the shop that you have identified.

I don't think they need a sign at all. That's the simple solution, and the one used in this part of the country.

So, there are many levels to think about.

One for those that conceal carry - going to a gun shop - the general rules are keep it holstered and concealed. No one needs to know you are carrying.

For those that are wanting work done or selling or pawning their guns - this situation requires handling.... by you or the gun shop employees. It is advisable that the gun be in a case and unloaded.

A situation will arise when someone wanting to sell a gun walks in with gun in hand. Now from the stores perspective they don't know what your intentions are - just your stupidity of a guy walking into a gun store gun at the ready. First thoughts are a very stupid robber or a very stupid gun owner. Either way - stupid.

The general protocol for any gun shop is to take a gun cased or holstered. If you have to handle it you ask permission and this lets the employees know what you are doing.

Most gun shops want you NOT to handle your firearm in the store. Just a basic principle of gun safety unless you have permission.

I would get clarification from the owner as I'm seeing more missunderstanding than anything else.

There are a few gunshops around here that have similar signs.

Personally, I have no issues with this. If I go into these stores, I'm still going to have my pistol concealed on me, with the magazine in my front pocket. If something were to go down, reload, rack, bang - I'm in the fight.

I guess the reason this doesn't bother me is that I feel 10X safer at these gunshops than I would at a local Denny's. EVERY person working these gun shops is armed. The same cannot be said for the local Choke and Puke. Denny's is more likely to get robbed than the gun stores.
(Luckily I live in a state where we don't have to worry about places being off-limits to CCW - other than the usual post offices, federal buildings, etc.)

The real reason behind it is liability and safety. The guns shops aren't worried about folks like us that know what we're doing, it's the morons they are worried about. Ignorant folks who bring in fully loaded guns and who have no trigger discipline wanting to know why their gun won't work. All the while sweeping everyone in sight. (Usually cause the damn safety is on.)

The Bass Pro Shop and Gander Mountain here have a similar sign, but they distinguish between those carrying concealed and those bringing a gun into the store for other purposes. It says to check guns of any kind at the front, and then has a caveat that says it does not apply to those carrying concealed.

It's that simple.

Signs don't mean squat in Florida, even though the shops (all the shops around here) have them posted I really don't care...

Don't ask, don't tell.

If a gun store prohibited be from carrying concealed in their store...I would not frequent them.

Asking for weapons brought in for service or trade to be unloaded and cased...is fine.

I also have never seen a gun shop prohibit concealed carry.

Well, just to reiterate, the shops I frequent do not "prohibit concealed carry" specifically, and I understand the reasoning that their signs apply to guns that are going to be handled inside the store, for sale or trade or repair-type situations. But none of the signage makes that distinction; it simply says don't come in here with a loaded gun, and then words to the effect that it's a privilege, not a right, to enter their store and don't be a hardass or they'll throw you out. They don't all have that addendum, but two do.

I usually empty my carry gun and carry it in that way -- then load up with FMJ at the range. If I'm just going to the gun shop part and not shooting I carry just like I would in Neiman Marcus. My reasoning for emptying in the car is that I don't want to be seen emptying the gun I just carried through their showroom when I get to the lane -- they might ban me or something and I don't want the hassle or to lose access to a close-by range. If a store or restaurant banned me... well, who cares?

In Florida it is common for the shop to require that guns be unloaded. I asked one shop why, and they told me that it was because of the likelihood of a gun being handled in the shop, either at the counter, on the way to the range, or just for discussion purposes. Therefore, they want them unloaded for safety. Every employee in a gun shop here, (except for Gander/Basspro) carries open anyway, so if anything stupid happens, there is going to be a TON of lead flying and I don't think that armed customers are going to help that situation at all.

I understand it completly, anyone that does not, needs to hang out in a busy range for a couple of days.

People who think that every one that owns a gun, shoots a gun, carries a side arm dailey or carries a gun concealed with a permit is safe, situationaly aware and profieciant,with that gun are in some wierd dream state.

What ever the shop owner says, goes.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bendable,

quote:

I understand it completly, anyone that does not needs to hang out in a busy range for a couple of days.

I have worked at a busy range.

Policy was, if it is holstered (concealed or not), it had better stay holstered until you were on the firing line. If you brought a weapon off the firing line...it had to be visibly locked open/safe or holstered/cased.

It worked just fine, and I don't recall ever having a problem.

A couple of times I had people want to show off a gun in the classroom/front area. If you opened that case on a table...the gun had better be empty. If you handled the weapon, you were getting kicked out for the day. Weapon handling was to take place at the firing line only.

I never saw any reason to disarm anyone.

Another important thing to note here I think...is, concealed means concealed. That firearm should only be coming out if you plan to fire it. If that is not on the firing line...you'd better have a damn good reason for it. If you wanted to shoot with your concealed carry weapon...why not just carry something different that day? Do you unload all of you spare mags also? I don't generally target shoot with my carry ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
People who think that every one that owns a gun, shoots a gun, carries a side arm dailey or carries a gun concealed with a permit is safe, situationaly aware and profieciant,with that gun are in some wierd dream state.

What ever the shop owner says, goes.

I hear you, Bendable. But would you make this same statement if the "shop owner" owned a Denny's instead of a gunshop? Shouldn't he be equally concerned about customers who are carrying in his business but not, to quote you, "safe, situationally aware, or profficient?" If we are afraid of these numbskulls in a gunshop, why not in any other store?

quote:

As a (non-gun-related) business owner I would prefer people not come into my business with firearms since a) I don't know them and don't know that they are proficient and b) I'm armed so I don't feel the need for their protection and c) I would worry about someone getting injured if a gun went off due to unsafe handling and me being liable if I knew about it.

Unless I am misreading something then you are against legal concealed carry?

At least here in Texas unless there is the proper legal posting prohibiting legal concealed carry (IE: not a gun in a circle with a line thru it) > then I could give a crap about what anyone thinks.

Gents,

You CAN simply choose to take your business elsewhere.

While I can understand some of the "liability" issues I can't live with a policy that labels me incompetent and unsafe at some level.

We see very few of this type of thing in Oregon.

Wes