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Picture of Mikedare
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelleytoons:
So when I go to the ordering page for Armour Belts, for a gun belt, it says (in bold red): "Please be aware these will not fit most belt loops"

WTF? How is that a good gun belt? If it won't fit my pants, I can't see how I could possibly wear it.


At least on the Beltman site it doesn't suggest I will not be able to get them through my pants loops.
Sorry About that..Although I have no issues wearing an inch and three-quarter in any of my pants or shorts, there seem to be some makers of jeans/pants that it will not accommodate.
 
Posts: 157 | Location: Ludington MI | Registered: May 22, 2013Report This Post
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No, I already said it was my fault -- I was looking at the 1 1/2 inch belts and somehow when I clicked something (to try and order it) it took me to the 1 3/4 belt page, so as I started to get through the ordering process I got that message.

I understand a 1 3/4 belt is VERY large, and would not expect it to go through any loops on my pants. It's a good warning to have there.

I finally DID get back to the right page and placed an order, so hopefully it will get made (?) and shipped soon. I am interested in seeing how it compares to the other belt I got (the single layer one). But I'm sure it will be fine (and if so I'll probably order at least one more -- I do love some of those color combos, probably more than I should).


Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
 
Posts: 370 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: July 13, 2016Report This Post
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At the 14:00 mark, the guy demonstrates a regular belt rolling down/bending followed by a real gunbelt.

 
Posts: 1617 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 16, 2003Report This Post
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Thanks, that's interesting.

My "normal" leather belts aren't exactly "cheap Walmart belts" so they don't roll in the way he's demoing. But I get the point -- and the real reason this becomes important is when we put our holsters on we tend to have to skip loops. If the loops hit the right place, almost ANY belt would do (because the loop itself would keep the belt solidly in place). But I don't have any pants I can get away from skipping loops.

In any case, I've ordered the Armour belt one, and we'll see what happens.


Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
 
Posts: 370 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: July 13, 2016Report This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelleytoons:
... and the real reason this becomes important is when we put our holsters on we tend to have to skip loops. If the loops hit the right place, almost ANY belt would do (because the loop itself would keep the belt solidly in place).

Nope. Maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe it's where I carry, but, I never have to skip loops.

Pants and shorts materials are simply worthless at holding any more load than the garments, themselves. Loops or no loops: It adds nothing to vertical support.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
 
Posts: 10692 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Report This Post
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You NEVER skip loops? Wow.

I carry at 3:30 or so and that's exactly where the side loops are for my pants (then again, I'm carrying OWB. Perhaps IWB is different because I know there are those that can kind of slip around the belt easier).

But my pants loops, all on denim, could hold an 80 pound grandson hanging off (I know this from experience). They are TOUGH.


Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
 
Posts: 370 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: July 13, 2016Report This Post
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Picture of AH.74
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelleytoons:
If the loops hit the right place, almost ANY belt would do (because the loop itself would keep the belt solidly in place).


I haven't needed to ever skip loops either. Maybe this is due to body type or holster choice, but it seems to me that by making a positional adjustment or finding a more suitably fitting holster, this could be rectified.

Mike- your above viewpoint is just not the case- people have mentioned this several times. Not just any belt will do. Sure, you can use any belt- it just won't do the job nearly as well and for many people, this is not acceptable. What kind of holster did you choose for your fine $800+ dollar gun? A cheap nylon one? Same deal for belts- get one specifically made for the job. You're part way there in making a good purchase decision. Your new belt will be far more rigid and stable.

It's not about the pants or loops. It's all about the belt and holster.


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Posts: 6926 | Registered: November 14, 2008Report This Post
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Well, if you've read this thread you'll see that I have bought two gun belts recently (the last one, from Armourbelts, shipped yesterday so haven't had a chance to try it yet).

I never said I didn't think I should *have* a gun belt, just trying to figure out what was right and why. It's the "why" that interests me far more than the what (because there are lots of "what" threads out there). I still don't have a good (or at least to me, satisfactory) answer as to why a dual layer belt is better than a single layer.

Sometimes these things become urban myth -- kind of like the old saw about how a woman always put the turkey first in a small pan to baste and then in a large pan to cook, because that was the way her mother always did it. One day her mother was over when she was cooking and asked her why and she told her "But Mom, that's how YOU do it!" and her mother said "I only did that one time because I thought the turkey would fit and it didn't so I changed pans.

Sometimes we are still changing pans and not knowing why. Sometimes the reason is good, and sometimes we ought to just get the right pan in the first place <g>.


Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
 
Posts: 370 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: July 13, 2016Report This Post
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I did read the thread- that is why I referenced your purchase. Did you read my post?

Mike- it is not urban myth. You seem old and stubborn in this regard, and don't seem to be listening to the many educated people here.

You are also all over the forum, all the time. I recommend you post less, and read more


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Posts: 6926 | Registered: November 14, 2008Report This Post
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From a guy who has 7K posts, that's pretty funny (really. I got a laugh).

And, again, I've actually seen no one posting anything that answers the questions (again, single versus double) so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

But I do appreciate the chuckles, so keep 'em coming <g>.


Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
 
Posts: 370 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: July 13, 2016Report This Post
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Originally posted by AH.74:
I did read the thread- that is why I referenced your purchase. Did you read my post?

Mike- it is not urban myth. You seem old and stubborn in this regard, and don't seem to be listening to the many educated people here.

You are also all over the forum, all the time. I recommend you post less, and read more




You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink...


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I would support President Trump selecting Barack as the next ambassador to Afghanistan...and Hillary to Syria.


 
Posts: 7556 | Location: Somewhere north of a hot humid hell in the summer. | Registered: January 09, 2009Report This Post
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Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelleytoons:
It's the "why" that interests me far more than the what (because there are lots of "what" threads out there). I still don't have a good (or at least to me, satisfactory) answer as to why a dual layer belt is better than a single layer.

I answered the "why" back fourteen posts ago.

quote:

It's a question of the grain of the leather, stitching, how the stitching is done, and how much. (The stitching issues apply also to synthetic belts.)


I would also add type, quality and thickness of leather, but, that seems self-evident.

quote:
Originally posted by Kelleytoons:
Sometimes these things become urban myth -- ...

Except people keep trying to use cheaper belts, have unsatisfactory experiences, give in, buy a proper belt, and end up on some gun forum saying "I should have listened to you guys in the first place!"

That makes it Not Urban Myth.

Better-made, purpose-designed gunbelts provide something that generic belts and cheaper gunbelts do not: Lateral rigidity. So, instead of having to tighten the belt so tight you can hardly breath, and having the holster still sag, you can snug it comfortably tight and have little sag.

Nothing's free, though. Thicker, stiffer belts take much more wearing to get comfortable.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
 
Posts: 10692 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Report This Post
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Originally posted by ensigmatic:

Nothing's free, though. Thicker, stiffer belts take much more wearing to get comfortable.


My Armourbelt arrived today, and it already feels comfortable, that's not my real issue. The issue I have is with my leather holster on it creaks with every move I make. While it's still "concealed" it's a bit like having a bell that goes off and says "HEY I'M WEARING A GUN!"

I assume this goes away, right? Or is there something else I can do to alleviate the noise? The other single layer leather gun belt I ordered doesn't make this noise, so it's the belt and not the holster.


Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
 
Posts: 370 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: July 13, 2016Report This Post
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Originally posted by Kelleytoons:
My Armourbelt arrived today, and it already feels comfortable, that's not my real issue. The issue I have is with my leather holster on it creaks with every move I make. While it's still "concealed" it's a bit like having a bell that goes off and says "HEY I'M WEARING A GUN!"

I assume this goes away, right? Or is there something else I can do to alleviate the noise? The other single layer leather gun belt I ordered doesn't make this noise, so it's the belt and not the holster.


1. It should break in after a while.
2. See what the manufacturer has to say/recommend. It may even be in a FAQ on their website.
3. I've used Kiwi neutral paste wax applied to the contact points between the belt and holster with good results.
4. It's possible it's much louder to you than anyone around you would notice.



"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
 
Posts: 588 | Registered: February 26, 2015Report This Post
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You're right about me hearing it more -- even my wife (who is sensitive about most other things) didn't think it was all that bad.

But I'll look for that Kiwi paste, as well as see what the belt maker says (the main reason I posted here is that he has already commented in this thread so I was hoping he chime in again).

I very much like this belt otherwise.


Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
 
Posts: 370 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: July 13, 2016Report This Post
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I have used the Wilderness belts for many years due to the infinite adjustability. I recently added a couple of Kore Essentials Trackline belts for the same reason. They are not as stiff as a Wilderness, but seem adequate for IWB. I wish there were more manufacturers offering velcro or trackline belts in different widths and stiffness. For me, getting the belt tension right is just as important as the stiffness of the leather. Having holes spaced an inch apart doesn't always work out as you go between different pistols (or have a big meal).
 
Posts: 5893 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Report This Post
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With Wilderness belts and Kydex holsters there is also no noise whatsoever- another plus. But if you don't want to consider going away from leather, that's not something you can take advantage of.

I agree with the point made about leather breaking in and people not noticing- they are too caught up in their own doings (noses in phones for the most part).

Other than that, I am curious about how Mike thinks about the actual performance difference.


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Posts: 6926 | Registered: November 14, 2008Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelleytoons:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:

Nothing's free, though. Thicker, stiffer belts take much more wearing to get comfortable.


My Armourbelt arrived today, and it already feels comfortable, that's not my real issue. The issue I have is with my leather holster on it creaks with every move I make. While it's still "concealed" it's a bit like having a bell that goes off and says "HEY I'M WEARING A GUN!"

I assume this goes away, right? Or is there something else I can do to alleviate the noise? The other single layer leather gun belt I ordered doesn't make this noise, so it's the belt and not the holster.


Try a bit of talc or baby powder on/in the holster belt slots. It will help until your holster and the belt "break in" together.

The squeak is due to the Armour belt being thicker than your single layer belt and the tighter friction is causing the noise.

Enjoy your new Armour belt!
 
Posts: 1137 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: March 05, 2009Report This Post
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Talc is a good idea -- I'll give that a shot.

While it might sound a little odd, I actually do like the noise of the leather creaking, I just don't like the fact it calls attention to itself. The noise kind of reminds me of a fine saddle or leather chair (now I am betraying my age). It's a very western sort of sound.

The holes in the belt are 3/4 inch which I like better than the 1 inch holes of the single layer leather belt. And I do like the idea it's "finished" (has the smooth leather on both sides), as the single layer is not.

As I'm sure you all know, it's incredibly stiff (and no off color remarks intended). Compared to the single layer, it seems far more than just twice as stiff. It seems like a piece of steel I am wrapping around my waist. My wife was concerned when she saw me put it on -- "Is that comfortable?" she asked but while I do think it is I also don't quite understand why. In my head it doesn't seem as though it would be.

And other than the fact it's extremely hard to buckle (which I do assume will change with wear) I can see why so many of you recommended either this or a similar belt. There isn't any way possible almost any sort of weight hung off of this would cause it to even slightly bend off axis.

Thanks for all your help and sorry at times for being such a pain (I tend to want to understand things I don't really need to understand, if that makes sense).


Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
 
Posts: 370 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: July 13, 2016Report This Post
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Well, we certainly took a long walk around the block to get next door (I was the first response to your OP) Big Grin

Wait until that belt breaks in to conform to your rig and body. You'll see.

'Glad to hear your happy with your new Gun Belt!
 
Posts: 1137 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: March 05, 2009Report This Post
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