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Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
My experience is electronic hearing protection does not support normal stereoscopic hearing ....


That’s good to know; I’ve wondered how the less expensive units compared with higher quality electronic muffs. Both of my Ear Pro sets, my MSA Sordin, and an issued Peltor communications headset provide full natural stereoscopic sound. I find that it’s easy to forget I’m wearing them.

Not being able to determine sound direction could of course be a significant tactical handicap in some situations.




“The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.”
—With credit to Mark Twain, even if he didn’t say exactly that.
 
Posts: 36763 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
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Picture of cyberphobia
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As soon as the first shot goes off one is blind(night vision gone) and deaf.... The Wife shouting What The F Is Going On!!

Razz


"Advertising is the art of convincing people to spend money they don't have for something they don't need"

Will Rogers

SIG 226R Elite SAO
COONAN COMPACT .357 MAG
Dan Wesson CBOB .45
Dan Wesson VALOR .45

Wife and a 7 year old rescue Chocolate Labrador.



 
Posts: 1843 | Location: Ft Myers Florida | Registered: November 05, 2007Report This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by cyberphobia:
As soon as the first shot goes off one is blind(night vision gone) ....


What cartridge? If it’s one of the big four defensive autoloading pistol cartridges (9mm 357 SIG, 40 S&W, 45 ACP), the right ammunition can pretty much avoid that problem.

As for the deaf part, that’s what this thread is about.




“The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.”
—With credit to Mark Twain, even if he didn’t say exactly that.
 
Posts: 36763 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
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Did you read my comment?


"Advertising is the art of convincing people to spend money they don't have for something they don't need"

Will Rogers

SIG 226R Elite SAO
COONAN COMPACT .357 MAG
Dan Wesson CBOB .45
Dan Wesson VALOR .45

Wife and a 7 year old rescue Chocolate Labrador.



 
Posts: 1843 | Location: Ft Myers Florida | Registered: November 05, 2007Report This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by cyberphobia:
Did you read my comment?


I did, but as you seem to be indicating that it meant something other than what it seemed to say, I obviously did not understand it.




“The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.”
—With credit to Mark Twain, even if he didn’t say exactly that.
 
Posts: 36763 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
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I might fish for my glasses, but hearing protection? Not!

In the worst case, it's going to be a shooting, not a gunfight. A muzzle blast or two is going to cause some permanent damage, but so will getting shot or stabbed.

There's another consideration. Your life must be in danger to justify shooting. If you have time to don hearing protectors, vest (unless you sleep in one), or even shoes, that argument is significantly weakened. Your time is better spent establishing a safe zone for you and your family than hunting for trouble in the dark.

Secondly, you need all your senses, especially hearing before anything happens. Simply amplifying the sound won't help, since you lose any sense of its direction through electronic hearing protectors. All other sounds are indiscriminately amplified too - wind, appliances, even your own breathing.
 
Posts: 1672 | Registered: July 02, 2008Report This Post
fugitive from reality
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quote:
Originally posted by Neumann:
I might fish for my glasses, but hearing protection? Not!

In the worst case, it's going to be a shooting, not a gunfight. A muzzle blast or two is going to cause some permanent damage, but so will getting shot or stabbed.

There's another consideration. Your life must be in danger to justify shooting. If you have time to don hearing protectors, vest (unless you sleep in one), or even shoes, that argument is significantly weakened. Your time is better spent establishing a safe zone for you and your family than hunting for trouble in the dark.

Secondly, you need all your senses, especially hearing before anything happens. Simply amplifying the sound won't help, since you lose any sense of its direction through electronic hearing protectors. All other sounds are indiscriminately amplified too - wind, appliances, even your own breathing.


I'm going to disagree with pretty much everything you wrote. Here's why.

I've discharged and been around the discharges of several different calibers of rifles and pistols inside structures. The level of sound varies, but with the exception of 22lr both the volume and concussive force of the discharge was disorienting to say the least. I know someone who was personally involved in several on the job shootings. In one incident he didn't hear his shot, and in another he temporarily lost hearing on one side. The moral of the story is I'll take any advantage I can get.

Every DA and prosecutor I've talked to has said the same thing, a good shoot is a good shoot. There is this paranoia that exists on the internet that planning for home defense is going to show premeditation. In that respect you're right, I'm prepared to use deadly physical force to defend myself in the event that I was the victim of a home invasion or other crime.

As to loosing directional sense, this only applies if I'm outside. From the top of my stairs the danger is only coming from one direction. From inside a room the danger is only coming from the outside. I'm about as well trained in clearing a structure as I can get. I even taught that skill to others. I'm dialing 911 and letting the professionals do that unless there is no other option.

Now as to the premeditation of equipping myself with eyepro and body armor, who says I'll be wearing all that when the police arrive? As far as I know there has never been a prosecution where the level of prep was a factor in charging someone with a crime in the event of a self defense shooting. If there was I'd like to hear about it.


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Posts: 5120 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Report This Post
Freethinker
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Why don glasses? Isn’t being able to see evidence of malicious preparation as well?

I was wondering how long it would be before someone came up with the silly notion that preparing to defend ourselves against an intruder was proof that we’re like Dirty Harry and just itching for someone to “make my day.” As already mentioned, how are the police going to know what I did when I heard an intruder prowling around the house? If we’re saying anything more than, “I heard someone in my home; he attacked me; I defended myself,” we’re saying too much. Knowing a little about the legal aspects of self-defense is just as important as having a weapon to do it with. Hint: “I slipped into my ninja jammies, loaded up my pouches with throwing stars, and grabbed my trusty katana (for close work) along with my Glock fotay,” are things that are best left unsaid during an initial report to the police.

As I also mentioned above (RT*T), some electronic hearing muffs do provide stereophonic sound pass-through; Pro Ears, for example, have independent on/off and volume controls for each ear: how can that not provide stereo hearing?

Then there’s the whole, “I’m not going looking for trouble,” objection to being as fully prepared as we might be. The problem with that is it limits our actions to a very narrow set of possible situations. If I hear the door being broken down and someone yelling, “Bill, you miscreant, I know you’ve been fornicating with my boyfriend,” (my name’s not Bill, BTW, and I’m not gay), I will hole up, try to call the police, and await further developments. But what if I just hear a suspicious noise?

I’ve never had an intruder enter my home, but on more occasions than I can recall I have heard unusual noises. Now at that point what do I do?

I could call the police and ask them to come and clear my house:
“911, what’s your emergency?”
“I heard a noise.”
“What kind of noise?”
[Explanation]
“Is you door unlocked so the police can enter?”
“No, they’ll have to break in.”
After the fifth or sixth such call, I’m either going to get tired of fixing my door, or the police are going to say that they’re not going to come any more to investigate strange noises. So, that course of action is somewhat self-limiting.

I could say to myself, “It’s probably just the wind,” and try to go back to sleep. Try, but probably not succeed. Or if I do, I could have my throat cut when the strange noise-maker comes into my bedroom.

I could go into “safe space” mode with my Benelli trained on the door, but at some point I’m going to have to do something else unless I have toilet facilities and a good supply of food and water in there with me. It might be easier clearing after the sun’s been up for a few hours, but sooner or later, I’m going to have to do something. This option also becomes more complicated if there are other people in the house, such as a room full of children.

And of course, I could just decide to investigate the noise myself. I do that with handgun and mounted light, flashlight, good electronic hearing protection (with stereo capability), and body armor. Once I’ve taken the five minutes to clear the house, I say, “It was probably just the wind,” and go back to sleep.

As for the problem of hearing my own breathing or other extraneous noises, my solution is to turn down the amplification gain. If I couldn’t do that, I’d get a set of electronic muffs that permit it. And that provide stereophonic hearing.




“The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.”
—With credit to Mark Twain, even if he didn’t say exactly that.
 
Posts: 36763 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
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I'm very protective of my hearing, but I don't worry about it. The chance of needing to discharge a firearm in my home is already very low. Plus, there's a reason my nightstand gun is chambered and has no manual safety: groggy, middle of the night home defense should be kept as simple as possible. In my case, at least, where the bedroom is only a few steps from the front door.
 
Posts: 2096 | Location: Dallas TX | Registered: December 14, 2006Report This Post
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Picture of eclayton
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quote:
Originally posted by SapperSteel:
I keep a chair near my bed. When I go to bed I drape my pants over the back of the chair with the waist resting in the seat of the chair. My holster is an IWB model, and is on the pants when I put them there. My pistol is in the holster, and the E-muffs are also on the chair seat. If I need to respond to something suspicious, I can put the muffs and pants on, with pistol in holster in a flash.


This would work better if you had a fireman's pole allowing you to slide down directly into that pair of pants.
 
Posts: 264 | Location: Virginia | Registered: October 17, 2006Report This Post
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I don't like the thought of ear pro failure or distortions. My HD guns are stored in an inwall cabinet in my bedroom... Loaded, suppressed, and ready to go.
 
Posts: 135 | Registered: March 18, 2013Report This Post
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Picture of qcsmitty
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quote:
Originally posted by Neumann:
I might fish for my glasses, but hearing protection? Not!

In the worst case, it's going to be a shooting, not a gunfight. A muzzle blast or two is going to cause some permanent damage, but so will getting shot or stabbed.

There's another consideration. Your life must be in danger to justify shooting. If you have time to don hearing protectors, vest (unless you sleep in one), or even shoes, that argument is significantly weakened. Your time is better spent establishing a safe zone for you and your family than hunting for trouble in the dark.

Secondly, you need all your senses, especially hearing before anything happens. Simply amplifying the sound won't help, since you lose any sense of its direction through electronic hearing protectors. All other sounds are indiscriminately amplified too - wind, appliances, even your own breathing.


This


__________________________
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-----------------------------------
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Posts: 3691 | Location: Charlotte, NC | Registered: May 06, 2011Report This Post
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Man I am screwed, lol. I am 76 years old, use hearing aids(out of the ears at night), wife snores a bit so I wear ear plugs, have apnea so have my mask and the noise of the machine, and gun is locked and loaded on my nightstand. I count on my wife who has superb hearing and our dogs who also have better hearing than I do. If she wakes me or the dogs do, I grab light and gun and butt naked go to my BR door and listen. If she and dogs go quiet, I go back to bed. If she and they continue to act up, I have her call 911 and tell the police I am armed, there is someone in the house, and they will have to break in. I do not 'clear' the house. Not my expertise. In the Corps('62 - '65) I was also braver(younger and dumber) but now I pay to have the law work for me.

Semper Fi

paul


No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice and family. In forming a marital union, two people become something greater than once they were.”

Marriage is a “keystone of our social order,” Justice Kennedy said, adding that the plaintiffs in the case were seeking “equal dignity in the eyes of the law.”
 
Posts: 30 | Location: Florida | Registered: December 01, 2016Report This Post
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Picture of Knezz
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Electronic ear muffs, in my opinion, gives false reports of where the sounds are coming from. That would happen with cheaper sets as well as better sets. I have Sordin MSAs and I feel the same with them.

I have a pair of Sonic Defenders on my night stand (with the "filter cap" out). This blocks sounds above 85db while letting you hear noises the go bump in the night.

If the situation allows me time to don the Sonic Defenders - great. If not, a little ear ringing is so much better that spending eternity pushing up daisies.


Regards,
K. Nezz

=======================
"There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion." *Gen. W. Thornson*
 
Posts: 3033 | Location: East Coast | Registered: January 09, 2007Report This Post
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Picture of bobtheelf
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These muffs are great for directional hearing:
https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ear...=pro+ears+gold&psc=1

I have a cheap pair also that doesn't work so well, but the Pro Ears Gold are fantastic.
 
Posts: 2347 | Location: Nashville | Registered: July 23, 2012Report This Post
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Picture of Sourkraut
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quote:
Originally posted by sourdough44:
If you have to use a gun in close quarters, hearing protection is down the list for worries.

I say don't worry about it.


Let's see.....rip off the CPAP and put on the muffs..... I won't have time, in fact I worry about my limited hearing while wearing the CPAP.


"Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Joe Louis
 
Posts: 478 | Location: Moved to Idaho, from OreGUN, 10/2016! | Registered: January 17, 2012Report This Post
Junior Member
Picture of RichS
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Thought about this the other day. Why not get a suppresser for your home defense gun? I know that won't eliminate all sound but it might be sufficient.
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: May 03, 2004Report This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
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I put a silencer on my AR pistol.

It isn't exactly hearing safe, and I don't shoot it at the range without plugs. But it will beat the hell out of uncorking a round inside with nothing on the muzzle. Electronic ears aren't a bad idea.
 
Posts: 12643 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Report This Post
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Anyone know which is louder inside a building; 12 GA vs. Rifle length AR?


"Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Joe Louis
 
Posts: 478 | Location: Moved to Idaho, from OreGUN, 10/2016! | Registered: January 17, 2012Report This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by Sourkraut:
Anyone know which is louder inside a building; 12 GA vs. Rifle length AR?


A quick search turned up this thread that claims the 12 gauge is louder.

https://thefiringline.com/foru...owthread.php?t=10420

Keep in mind, though, that barrel length and various muzzle devices have very large impacts on discharge noise. The above linked comment doesn’t cite a source or barrel lengths, so that’s two unknowns that might be significant. I can attest, though, that the loudest noise I was ever exposed to was a 12 gauge shell fired from an adapter with a 10 inch barrel that fit inside an M79 grenade launcher tube. That was outside in 1968 in a land far away and my ears haven’t stopped ringing since.

Some rifle muzzle brakes are also extremely loud; a friend has one that forces me to stand directly behind him even when wearing full muff protection.

On another note, I’m curious what the fans of using a suppressor on a handgun in a close quarters defensive situation think about how much larger they make the gun. It seems to me that such a long attachment makes a deflection or even take-away much more likely. As I say, though, I’m curious about other opinions.




“The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.”
—With credit to Mark Twain, even if he didn’t say exactly that.
 
Posts: 36763 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
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