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Picture of fpuhan
posted
In the wake of the Texas church shooting, I found this video to be extremely informative. Think you could do what Jack Wilson did?





You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of great violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.

NRA Benefactor/Patriot Member
 
Posts: 2198 | Location: Peoples Republic of North Virginia | Registered: December 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Thanks for the video; I seldom watch such, but that was worth it.

quote:
Originally posted by fpuhan:
Think you could do what Jack Wilson did?


As for the question: Possibly. I and a friend regularly fire a course of my own development that incorporates some of the skill drills he advocates. Our head shot drill is at 7 yards, but if we can’t hit a 4×6" “head” target in under 2.0 seconds—preferably less than 1.5—from the ready, it makes us sad. I believe that that zone size is more realistic than 3×5 inches set horizontally, but in any case, I’ll have to see what we can do at 15 yards. Candidates for the NRA LE handgun instructor course are expected to be capable of 6 inch groups at 15 yards, something I have no problem with, so 4×6 in less than 6 seconds? Probably.




Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed.
 
Posts: 40981 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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And again addressing the “Could you do it?” question, something that is invariably overlooked in incidents like this is the element of chance.

I haven’t researched the issue very much, but did Mr. Wilson ever say that the head shot was deliberate? I shoot a fair amount, but even under the stress of a familiar drill I sometimes fire shots that don’t hit where I intended them to. Fifteen yards (assuming that’s correct) is far enough that it doesn’t take much of a sight alignment error to throw the shot off a couple of feet. As usual we’re seeing speculation why he decided on a head shot, but that it was deliberate is just a guess at this point as far as I know.

None of that is intended to disparage what the hero (literally, for once) did, but if someone starts using this incident as proof of why we all need to start practicing to hit a 3×5 card at 15 yards, and that we are somehow not worthy to carry a gun unless we can (sometimes, anyway), we should keep in mind that not everything is always what we assume it to be.

Second, when we see videos like this with someone’s pontificating about what’s necessary for an effective shot to the head or elsewhere, there’s a tendency to forget that things like the common 3×5 inch “standard” are anything but. If the target is facing us directly, a shot that hits the left or right edge of that imaginary zone may not be fatal, or even an attack stopper. And on the other hand, hitting a bunch of stuff in the head above and below that 3 inch vertical distance can accomplish the goal very well, especially if we’re shooting a powerful cartridge like the 357 SIG from a P229. The only reason I can think of why some people believe that a bullet is going to have a hard time “getting into” the vital structures of the head is because they have very murky ideas of what bullets are capable of. Again, we’re lacking specific information about this incident, but there is no reason to assume that the neutralizing shot hit that magic “eyebox” zone.




Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed.
 
Posts: 40981 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of fpuhan
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Let's also not forget that "paralysis by analysis" is going to get you dead.

Maybe it was here, but I think it was on another forum, that I spoke about a training I had a year or so ago, where the major take-aways were
  • BREAK THE FREEZE. Everyone freezes. For how long is a matter of training!
  • IMPACT THE UNIVERSE. In short, MOVE.


In the video I posted, it was noted that the first casualty was one of the armed security men, who spent 3.1 seconds trying to get his gun into play. The one thing I noticed was that he was STARK STILL. Making himself an exposed target, in other words.

I try to attend an active shooter training every year or so. Standing at a range lane (as in the video) restricts any form of lateral movement that might save your life when the SHTF.




You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of great violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.

NRA Benefactor/Patriot Member
 
Posts: 2198 | Location: Peoples Republic of North Virginia | Registered: December 04, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
I definitely agree with all the comments about speed and “breaking the freeze.”

There are two relevant things I stress to myself and students.

The first is, “You can’t miss fast enough to win, but you can shoot slowly enough to lose.”
My primary complaint about “no misses permitted” law enforcement qualification courses is that they condition people to shoot as slowly as the course permits to ensure they never miss a single shot. In real life, if we miss, we should just keep shooting. We should not be thinking, “Oh crap! I just missed and failed the qual.”

As for movement, very often we’re limited to unnatural restrictions on a range, but even a single step left/right when drawing can break the tendency to just stand rooted on one place. Once we start moving, we are more likely to continue to move.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,




Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed.
 
Posts: 40981 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
The time he references is somewhat misleading compared to real life.
The guy in the video was shooting "cold" but knew what he needed to do, approximately when he needed to be ready, exactly where the stationary target was located and that he would actually be shooting.
It is likely that the defenders sat through years of church services, don't know whats coming, where it's located and don't have the birds eye view of the camera. That distorts the time between the decision to reach for your gun to first shot.
Still a good idea to practice anything you can but this makes the real life situation these people faced look a lot different than reality.
 
Posts: 5581 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
... this makes the real life situation these people faced look a lot different than reality.


Exactly.




Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed.
 
Posts: 40981 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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