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Picture of cne32507
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HiRes Music

I am a neophyte in the quest for HiRes music. I am no audiophile and do not wish to dive deeper. This is what I have found so far. Please do not assume that I know what I am talking about.

Does it really sound better?
Yes. Even my 74 YO shooter’s ears can tell the difference. The instruments in a jazz quintet are distinct and separated. Every faint brushed cymbal, background vocal, or string squeak is heard. I have discovered new sounds in songs I have listened to for decades.

Where can I get HiRes music?
I will limit these notes to digital music delivered by the internet and use the term HiFi to avoid getting sidetracked into what defines HiRes. Amazon Music has a tier that offers better than their standard MP3 quality in the FLAC codec. They call it HD (CD fidelity) and UltraHD (24/96 and up). Amazon is constantly adding more songs and albums to the UHD tier. Tidal also offers quality HiFi in WMA but their library isn’t to my taste. There are other internet sources that sell downloads. HDTracks is one; I recommend downloading their free sampler of HiRes music.

What equipment do I need?
Money will be spent but less than $400 will get you there. I will use the term amplifier but other devices such as iPods and smartphones are implied. First, something to understand about digital music: Digital music is a computer file. The music file must be decoded and converted to analog electrical signals to be “played”.The digital file is converted by a built-in DAC chip into analog electrical waves for amplification.

Now the tricky part: Even first line amplifiers can have a poor DAC. I found this out when I contacted Yamaha about my recent mfg. AVR. Tech replied that my model’s internal DAC would not convert past CD quality. Bummer. BUT there’s hope: the amp will faithfully amplify what it is fed, so feed it HiRes. Just bypass the internal DAC. BTW, this is changing as mfgs try to catch up. Yamaha now brags about its DAC.

Music players, DACs, and such.
Some pricey dedicated music players will deliver quality. The Firefly dedicated DAC is excellent and was recommended by the Yamaha tech. But it is not a player itself. The Japanese mfg. LG makes a line of smartphones that, starting with the V30, have an excellent DAC with a 1.5mm socket. I bought one from Amazon for around $200 and love it! I connect it to my home theater with a specialty cable: 1.5mm plug to split RCA plugs. This connection bypasses the Yamaha DAC. I only use the V30 as a music player for WiFi and downloads: no carrier required.

Headsets:
A good quality headset is the best way to enjoy HiFi without busting Visa. I can only afford a Sony MDR 7506 ($95 on Amazon) but it delivers. Plugged directly into the V30, I can enjoy the best sounding recorded music available for <$400. Also, my home theater can play HiFi music with the V30 feeding a Yamaha AVR with ELAC speakers.

The convenience of digital files is obvious, but the compressed digital file does not contain ALL of the original recordings. This is purposeful to reduce massive files for transmission and storage. The compression procedure skips and removes some of the sounds as determined by an algorithm. Some of these sounds cannot be heard anyway.

Now that our device speed, transmission speed, and storage capacity are light years ahead of what they were two decades ago, files that are larger and contain more of the original PCM are easy to play/download. Files of good sound quality will quote the bitrate and the sampling rate of the original PCM file.16/44.1 is CD quality. High resolution would be 24/96 or higher. There is much discussion of the merits of higher bitrates and sampling rates.

A few terms:
Codec: Short for CODE - DECODE
MP3: A common codec
AAC: A codec used for CDs
FLAC: A better codec
ALAC: codec used by Apple
WMA: codec used by Tidal
PCM: Pulse Code Modulation. The first and last step in converting analog to digital and back.
DAC: Digital to Analog Converter
Bitrate: The “depth” of each sample, stated in bits (8 bits, 16 bits, etc.)
Sample rate: The number of samples taken each second, stated in KHz (16KHz, 44.1KHz, etc.)
HiRes: High-Resolution music files that are nearly true to the original studio-master recording.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cne32507,
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: High Sierra & Low Desert | Registered: February 03, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
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Is there a question in there or is this just a snip of an article?
 
Posts: 22858 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of cne32507
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Uh, my bad. OK then, What do you think?

I wrote the post over the last two days trying to organize what I have learned.
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: High Sierra & Low Desert | Registered: February 03, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
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I subscribe to Tidal and its great
 
Posts: 53086 | Location: Tucson Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
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quote:
Originally posted by cne32507:
Uh, my bad. OK then, What do you think?

I wrote the post over the last two days trying to organize what I have learned.


Think about What?
I am familiar with everything you have said, are you looking for something?
 
Posts: 22858 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well smschulz, I was hoping to start a discussion on HiRes music with input by knowledgeable people like yourself and questions by members who are curious about this rapidly expanding "hobby". My post was meant to be HiRes 101, describing my journey.

nhtagmember posted that he likes Tidal. I have Tidal also. This is my limited knowledge of how Tidal and MQA operate: MQA codec is different in that each file can be decoded to three levels. They call it "unfolding" to a maximum of 3 levels. The 3rd level is where HiRes resides. To get to the 3rd level, your DAC must use their proprietary software. Yamaha's MusicCast has Tidal as a built-in station. But Yamaha doesn't unfold to the 3rd level in the models I have (I have 2 recent Yamaha AVRs). Roku has a Tidal channel also, but Roku doesn't do HiFi, much less unfold Tidal past the 1st level. The LG-V30 will unfold to 3 levels. Just be sure you get what you're paying for.
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: High Sierra & Low Desert | Registered: February 03, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
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quote:
Originally posted by cne32507:
Well smschulz, I was hoping to start a discussion on HiRes music with input by knowledgeable people like yourself and questions by members who are curious about this rapidly expanding "hobby". My post was meant to be HiRes 101, describing my journey.



OK I get it.

Where do you want to start?
The reason for a request for a question is that this is a very broad topic so to just start talking would otherwise just be rambling.

What do you want to know?

2-channel, DAC's, streaming, Equipment, etc ....

Start somewhere and we would be glad to chime it.
 
Posts: 22858 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unmanned Writer
Picture of LS1 GTO
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quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
Originally posted by cne32507:
Well smschulz, I was hoping to start a discussion on HiRes music with input by knowledgeable people like yourself and questions by members who are curious about this rapidly expanding "hobby". My post was meant to be HiRes 101, describing my journey.



OK I get it.

Where do you want to start?
The reason for a request for a question is that this is a very broad topic so to just start talking would otherwise just be rambling.

What do you want to know?

2-channel, DAC's, streaming, Equipment, etc ....

Start somewhere and we would be glad to chime it.


This is the Lair, OP provided a personal review of a digital music format.

Can't say a review requires a question to be considered.







Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.



Only in an insane world are the sane considered insane.


The memories of a man in his old age
Are the deeds of a man in his prime


 
Posts: 14020 | Location: It was Lat: 33.xxxx Lon: 44.xxxx now it's CA :( | Registered: March 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My infatuation with HiRes music started right here on the Sig forum last summer. A topic asked for a recommendation to test a new stereo setup. Eagles' "Hell Freezes Over" CD was recommended. I bought the CD and it sounded good but then everything sounded good on a new stereo. I started researching HiRes music and found a whole new way to waste money.
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: High Sierra & Low Desert | Registered: February 03, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
Picture of smschulz
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I realize now days a lot of people don't remember analog aka vinyl LP's.
When CD's came out in the early eighties I was in the audio business, it was a DRAMATIC improvement in many ways, then the signal-to- noise, the dynamic range and especially the bass improvement.
There were and still are critical opinions at the audiophile level on the ultimate sound vinyl vs CD and not going to debate that now.

On the subject of Hi-Res audio that can mean streaming and it can mean over-sampling.

Streaming was and is for the most part lossy and compressed.
That is adequate for most.

Hi-Res streaming means at least CD quality and in the case for one company Tidal it is also compressed.

Compression saves space and is easier on bandwidth.
Personally I am not a favor of that type of steaming.
When I stream I use QoBuz.

It is not compressed and does not require a special DAC chip to decode for maximum performance as does Tidal (MQA format).
A lot of audiophiles like and a lot of us hate the format.
That can be debated later.

CD quality IS Hi-Res 16/44 but some performance improvement may or may not be apparent by oversampling with 24-bit at a higher frequency.
Much debate is whether this is audible or not.

I do think there is some improvement but it diminishes on a very steep curve.
I can tell you this that a good DAC can get the most out any digital format.
I mostly listen to 2-channel on vintage audio through speakers and a top tier DAC.

I recently was using an Audioquest Dragonfly Red ($200) DAC and upgraded to a Topping D90 ($700).
A HUGE sound improvement and a plus with the additional input flexibility.
Mostly I listen to FLAC files ripped from my CD collection but some downloaded oversampled FLAC and also some streamed from QoBuz.

OK my contribution, hope it helps but note it is not just one thing it is all of them combined that makes it better.
 
Posts: 22858 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of cne32507
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quote:
OK my contribution, hope it helps but note it is not just one thing it is all of them combined that makes it better.


This. This is what I had trouble understanding. I wasted time trying to get 24bit music to sound better than 16bit, not realizing that I didn't have a necessary piece of equipment: a quality DAC. Your vintage amp will play any analog music it is fed. I recommend anyone who wishes to try HiRes music to sign up for a trial with QoBuz or HDTracks (no CC required) and download a free sample. Try it on your stereo or headset. You will be able to tell the difference if your player actually decodes 24bit instead of downgrading to 16bit.

Here's an article that shows why the difference between 16bit and 24bit is more than 8 (it's 256X)



BTW, I installed the free "Grammarly for Chrome" app and it really helps me.
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: High Sierra & Low Desert | Registered: February 03, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
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Yes, 24-bit is technically better than 16-bit.
However, you would have to have a lot of things going for you to tell much if any difference in sound to your ears.
It is not an "oh my God" difference.
Under a blind test almost everyone would be simply guessing.
Still, under certain circumstances it can be an enhancement.
To that a CD 16/44 is plenty good so no need to turn your nose if it isn't 24/96 or whatever.
 
Posts: 22858 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of maladat
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I have a fairly high-end headphone setup and a pretty good pair of studio monitors.

To me, on that equipment, there's a very noticable difference between CD quality audio and the lower end of lossy compressed audio, say in the 128-256 kbps range. It's most noticeable in things with a lot of high frequency content like cymbals and sibilants. With higher bitrate lossy compressed audio, much of the difference goes away.

I can't tell much if any difference between 16/44.1 (CD quality) and 24/192 (the upper end of common high-res availability).

What I will add is that sometimes the high-res audio sounds better for other reasons - sometimes high-res files are based on a different, better master than what is available on CD or standard streaming services, meaning basically that it sounds better because they did a better job mixing the recording tracks together so that the actual material sounds better, independent of the format in which it is delivered. Occasionally the difference between masters is HUGE.
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: CA | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
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^^^^ 100% agree maladat ^^^^
 
Posts: 22858 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
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quote:
Originally posted by cne32507:
My infatuation with HiRes music started right here on the Sig forum last summer. A topic asked for a recommendation to test a new stereo setup. Eagles' "Hell Freezes Over" CD was recommended. I bought the CD and it sounded good but then everything sounded good on a new stereo. I started researching HiRes music and found a whole new way to waste money.


Hell Freezes Over is what got me on the road to surround sound.
 
Posts: 53086 | Location: Tucson Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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