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Picture of 4MUL8R
posted
Samurai is a word we all know. Normally a samurai is part of a warrior organization.

Ronin is a word made famous by a movie or two. I understand it to mean a person having martial skill like a samurai, but having no organization in which to work.

If a person was a ronin, a lone warrior, so to speak, and wanted to return to a common occupation, leaving the warrior lifestyle behind, what word would be used in Japan to describe him?

I'm looking for a term like ronin, a title, so to speak, not a perjorative.

Any authentic Japanese word suggestions would be appreciated as I write my next novel.


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Trying to simplify my life...
 
Posts: 5050 | Location: Commonwealth of Virginia | Registered: January 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
Picture of kkina
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I'm not aware of another term to describe such a person. Samurai were born into the warrior caste. One who left his master for whatever reason were still samurai, but commonly called rōnin (lit. "wave man"). They could not technically under the law enter another profession (with rare exceptions). Many became bodyguards or sometimes simple robbers. They were still rōnin.

Btw, someone who had martial skills, but was not of the samurai class, was called a bugeisha, or "martial artist".

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kkina,



ACCU-STRUT FOR MINI-14
"First, Eyes."
 
Posts: 16318 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
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A Ronin is simply a free-agent Samurai, a drifter or wanderer who is currently without a home or master to serve. This usually happened in one of two ways... either their master died, or their master fell out of favor and no longer warranted the service of Samurai.

There's no "normally" about it, a Samurai has a master / is a part of a team, and a Ronin doesn't, and it isn't necessarily a pejorative that a given man is a Ronin at a given moment. So a Ronin isn't just someone with skills like a Samurai, it's a Samurai without a home.

I'm far from an expert, but I think your sense of Ronin being pejorative is overblown, and I am unaware of any word that describes a former Ronin (or former Samurai) who left the life of swordsman and went on to being a baker or an architect or a plumber...

If there is one, I think it would be most analogous to our version of a former SEAL in modern times or a former Gunfighter in the old west, or just a former soldier in general. Maybe something analogous to our notion of a military Vet who is now retired, but that feels too broad and like a stretch.

I mostly think there isn't a word for what you're thinking because it doesn't work quite like what your're thinking. But I'm not entirely sure and my Samurai history is getting rusty.

Sorry, hope they helps.
 
Posts: 25613 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 4MUL8R
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Thank you both. I was not thinking Ronin was perjorative. I was trying to find the term for a man who left the profession that wasn't a derogatory title, which might be something like "Couldn't hack the life, what a loser."

I may have to change my approach to describing this character if there is not an appropriate.


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Trying to simplify my life...
 
Posts: 5050 | Location: Commonwealth of Virginia | Registered: January 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Rinehart
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That’s an interesting exercise. I am not an expert either-

Is this novel set in modern times or past? (Many modern titles did not exist in the old days, as I understand).
Japan’s social hierarchy (as well as the period in which the story is set) can be rigid/formal, so a non-established person outside of the system would generally be viewed as a commoner (which would limit weapons of use). So without using a perjorative term, there’s a few possibilities that come to mind that step away from the better-known titles- (please, if you have a better understanding of Japanese history/language, step in).
A modern Japan time period gives more knight-errant options-

Senpai (せんぱい) – refers to people with more experience than oneself. (variation of “Sensei”).

kyōju (きょうじゅ) – refers to a teacher or “professor”.

Byakkotai (白虎隊, "White Tiger Force”. refers to young teenage samurai of the Aizu domain, who fought in the Boshin War (1868–1869).
(Quite an interesting group of individuals but sad ending). Also has a nice ring to it.
 
Posts: 1507 | Location: PA | Registered: March 15, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
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I've been to Tsuruga castle and most if not all all of the Samurai facilities in the Aizu region.

Lovely area. One whole group of Samurai from Aizu committed ritual suicide entirely unnecessarily, because they mistook the location of a fire for the castle they were sworn to protect so they thought they'd failed. One or two of them survived, and even though it became known that their suicides were never necessary in the first place the survivors were shunned as failures for not successfully killing themselves (however unnecessarily).

Tragic, weird, and beautiful facilities and graves.
 
Posts: 25613 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
Picture of kkina
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You could try watching, if you're not already aware, the 2013 film Unforgiven, a Japanese version of the Clint Eastwood movie of the same name (how's that for a reverse spaghetti western?). In it a former samurai has "put down his sword" to be a farmer. Might be some ideas there.



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Posts: 16318 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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