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Get my pies
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Picture of PASig
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quote:
Originally posted by ChuckFinley:
It almost seemed like automatons posed on the beach by some artist.


Brits are all about "the queue" and not leaving it, it's a very British thing to see them lined up all orderly like that.

The one guy who just said "fuck this" and threw off his gear and walked into the surf to swim home (which you know isn't happening) was heartbreaking to me and I bet that actually happened.


 
Posts: 23673 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
fugitive from reality
Picture of SgtGold
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PASig:
From Christopher Nolan on IMDB:

quote:

"This is an essential moment in the history of the Second World War. If this evacuation had not been a success, Great Britain would have been obliged to capitulate. And the whole world would have been lost, or would have known a different fate: the Germans would undoubtedly have conquered Europe, the US would not have returned to war. It is a true point of rupture in war and in history of the world. A decisive moment. And the success of the evacuation allowed Churchill to impose the idea of a moral victory, which allowed him to galvanize his troops like civilians and to impose a spirit of resistance while the logic of this sequence should have been that of surrender. Militarily it is a defeat; on the human plane it is a colossal victory."


I thought it was an excellent movie, but I really can't agree with the above. The loss of what was at that time almost the entire standing British army would have had a serious effect on English morale, but it doesn't change the fact that the Germans never had the naval might or technology to invade England.

Where the British could have lost it all was in expending too much of their existing naval and air power in evacuating every last man, thereby robbing themselves of the air power they needed later that year for the battle of Britain. Hitler thought he could still make peace with England, so he ordered his forces to not crush the defensive perimeter at Dunkirk. This gave the British the time they needed to pull off their evacuation, and the rest is history.


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Posts: 5902 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
Picture of ChuckFinley
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PASig:
quote:
Originally posted by ChuckFinley:
It almost seemed like automatons posed on the beach by some artist.


Brits are all about "the queue" and not leaving it, it's a very British thing to see them lined up all orderly like that.

The one guy who just said "fuck this" and threw off his gear and walked into the surf to swim home (which you know isn't happening) was heartbreaking to me and I bet that actually happened.


Oh, I agree, that this is a very "British" film, and actions. I don't object to showing them in an orderly queue. Rather, that the beach had many, many more people and more noise and the director chose to use this more spartan, artistic approach than CGI to fill in a more accurate representation



versus





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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
 
Posts: 4637 | Location: District 12 | Registered: June 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get my pies
outta the oven!

Picture of PASig
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ChuckFinley:


Oh, I agree, that this is a very "British" film, and actions. I don't object to showing them in an orderly queue. Rather, that the beach had many, many more people and more noise and the director chose to use this more spartan, artistic approach than CGI to fill in a more accurate representation


Did you miss the scene toward the very end when Tom Hardy was flying parallel with the beach? They showed lines and lines of tens of thousands of troops that stretched out into the distance. Much like that original photo you showed.


 
Posts: 23673 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Evil Asian Member
Picture of LastCubScout
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ChuckFinley:
I don't object to showing them in an orderly queue. Rather, that the beach had many, many more people and more noise and the director chose to use this more spartan, artistic approach than CGI to fill in a more accurate representation.


So, it looks like Atonement did a pretty good job of representing that.

 
Posts: 5045 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA | Registered: April 11, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Legalize the Constitution
Picture of TMats
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Saw it this afternoon and thought it was worth seeing.

The armorer who loaded Hardy's Spit was apparently the same guy that loaded Costner's pistol in Open Range.


__________________________________________________________
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but it will annoy enough people to make it a worthwhile effort.
 
Posts: 7709 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
Picture of ChuckFinley
posted Hide Post
quote:
Did you miss the scene toward the very end when Tom Hardy was flying parallel with the beach? They showed lines and lines of tens of thousands of troops that stretched out into the distance. Much like that original photo you showed.



Must have. Waiting to the final scene on site to show that seems odd.

Then again, during that scene I was wondering if he really was going to risk hitting the boys on the beach instead of a nice belly landing in the sea offshore and swim in.

I did like them showing why the pilots learned to open their canopies before sea landings.




_________________________
NRA Endowment Member
_________________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
 
Posts: 4637 | Location: District 12 | Registered: June 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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My take on the end of Hardy's character was that he didn't want to leave the plane. Didn't want to abandon it after all that time with the plane like a captain and his ship.
 
Posts: 784 | Registered: March 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of FlyingScot
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This guys review captures my opinion of this film pretty good...

Dunkirk

"Without hardcore adhesion to accuracy, and without any deep character development, and relatively little dialogue for that matter, the story that was depicted could have occurred on a far away moon in a science fiction setting and it would have paid off in a similar manner."





“Forigive your enemy, but remember the bastard’s name.”

-Scottish proverb
 
Posts: 1386 | Location: South Florida | Registered: December 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get my pies
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Picture of PASig
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I'm sorry but you guys that all hated this movie are crazy.

It's NOT supposed to be Saving Private Ryan II for Christ's sake!

It's a story about a retreat that should have destroyed the British Army and ended with a thousand year Reich taking over the world, but thanks be to God it didn't turn out that way.


 
Posts: 23673 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
In search of baseball, strippers, and guns
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My complaints have little to do with it not resembling saving private Ryan.



SPOILER ALERT:



Let's go down the list of the soldiers that tell the story


1). We first meet the young British soldier who ties these stories together as he retreats with his squad. After they are all killed, he drops his rifle and flees, something I can hardly blame him for

What I can blame him for:

1). He gathers a stretcher not to help save a wounded man, but to skip the line and make it onto an evacuation ship

2). When that ship sinks, rather than returning to the beach, he hides in the dock

3). When he hears the admiral tell the soldiers that survived the sinking of the ship that he would find them another ship, he drops into the water so that he will appear wet and can again "cut the line"

4). When that also gets sunk he joins a group that has left the main body of soldiers on the beach and tries again to flee in an abandoned ship


All the while we see his story, from the beginning to the end, we see faithful British soldiers enduring the hardships of remaining with their units on the beach

Sure, he tries to stop the English soldiers from executing his partner in crime, the French soldier, but does that redeem or excuse him from all the other things?

And onto his partner in crime....

1). We first meet him on the beach moments after we see his fellow countrymen involved in a firefight to hold the line against the encroaching Germans. What is he doing? Stripping the clothes off a dead British soldier so that he may escape. Again, while his countrymen are manning a wall. He is involved and pretty much mimics all the actions of the guy described above, so I won't rehash them

And the n t British soldier, played Harry Stiles of One Direction fame.

He actually starts out the most redeemable of the group. He is on the initial ship we see sink tied to the dock, presumably because he is supposed to be, and is put on the second ship, again because he is supposed to be. After surviving that sinking, he too joins the group trying to escape in the beached trawler, something you can certainly accept and explain. But when the trawler comes under fire, how does he respond? By accusing one of the other soldiers of being a spy (it turns out he is french) and trying to force him, at gun point, to leave the vessel into certain death so that he may have a chance to survive. And when he is stood up to by the first guy, he essentially tells him to go along with feeding the one guy to the Germans lest he be fed as well

We do, at least, see shame from him when he does return to England. And why not, a lot of what he did, not the retreat itself, was pretty shameful


And, finally, we come to Cillian Murphy's character, who we first encounter as what appeared to be a lone survivor of a sunken ship in the channel.

He is portrayed as "shellshocked" and rightfully so, and a lot of his initial actions are explained away by that. Because of the time dilation story telling, we even see him acting the part of the good British soldier before the sinking

Eventually, though, his behavior too becomes extreme as he actively fights to prevent the civilians from returning to help his fellow soldiers. So much so that he kills a 17 year old boy along to help out (although the boy is not immediately killed and the other civilians lie to him about the severity of the injuries)

He only shows remorse for this after other British soldiers have been taken on the ship and have remarked about the boy's poor condition. And at the end, when they have returned safely to England, and he sees the truth that the boy has died, after he makes eye contact with the other boy carrying the body of his friend off the vessel, what does he do? He skulks off into the crowd


Again, all the while, we see thousands upon thousands of British soldiers standing their post, remaining with their units, in spite of being faced with the same long odds of survival that our main characters are faced with

Why couldn't at least one of them been used to tell that perspective of the story?

The pilots. The civilians coming to the rescue. The top brass even, all shown as heroic.

Yes it was a desperate time. Yes desperate people do desperate things in desperate times. But they also do heroic things. And I, for one, wouldn't have minded if there was at least one British soldier protrayed who didn't act pretty completely out of his own self interest and survival for pretty much the course of the whole film



So, while I thought it was good, and well done, I don't think it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. And for the record, I'm not a big fan of saving private ryan either, although for entirely different reasons


——————————————————

If the meek will inherit the earth, what will happen to us tigers?
 
Posts: 7040 | Location: Bristow, VA | Registered: July 09, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
Picture of lyman
posted Hide Post
took a moment to get the sequence, as in the time line (mole, in a day, etc etc,)
however , I enjoyed this movie,


and would love to have taken a couple hours (days??) to walk that line of No1's along that wall,,,,



www.chesterfieldarmament.com
 
Posts: 6940 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kevbo:
My complaints have little to do with it not resembling saving private Ryan.



SPOILER ALERT:



Let's go down the list of the soldiers that tell the story


1). We first meet the young British soldier who ties these stories together as he retreats with his squad. After they are all killed, he drops his rifle and flees, something I can hardly blame him for

What I can blame him for:

1). He gathers a stretcher not to help save a wounded man, but to skip the line and make it onto an evacuation ship

2). When that ship sinks, rather than returning to the beach, he hides in the dock

3). When he hears the admiral tell the soldiers that survived the sinking of the ship that he would find them another ship, he drops into the water so that he will appear wet and can again "cut the line"

4). When that also gets sunk he joins a group that has left the main body of soldiers on the beach and tries again to flee in an abandoned ship


All the while we see his story, from the beginning to the end, we see faithful British soldiers enduring the hardships of remaining with their units on the beach

Sure, he tries to stop the English soldiers from executing his partner in crime, the French soldier, but does that redeem or excuse him from all the other things?

And onto his partner in crime....

1). We first meet him on the beach moments after we see his fellow countrymen involved in a firefight to hold the line against the encroaching Germans. What is he doing? Stripping the clothes off a dead British soldier so that he may escape. Again, while his countrymen are manning a wall. He is involved and pretty much mimics all the actions of the guy described above, so I won't rehash them

And the n t British soldier, played Harry Stiles of One Direction fame.

He actually starts out the most redeemable of the group. He is on the initial ship we see sink tied to the dock, presumably because he is supposed to be, and is put on the second ship, again because he is supposed to be. After surviving that sinking, he too joins the group trying to escape in the beached trawler, something you can certainly accept and explain. But when the trawler comes under fire, how does he respond? By accusing one of the other soldiers of being a spy (it turns out he is french) and trying to force him, at gun point, to leave the vessel into certain death so that he may have a chance to survive. And when he is stood up to by the first guy, he essentially tells him to go along with feeding the one guy to the Germans lest he be fed as well

We do, at least, see shame from him when he does return to England. And why not, a lot of what he did, not the retreat itself, was pretty shameful


And, finally, we come to Cillian Murphy's character, who we first encounter as what appeared to be a lone survivor of a sunken ship in the channel.

He is portrayed as "shellshocked" and rightfully so, and a lot of his initial actions are explained away by that. Because of the time dilation story telling, we even see him acting the part of the good British soldier before the sinking

Eventually, though, his behavior too becomes extreme as he actively fights to prevent the civilians from returning to help his fellow soldiers. So much so that he kills a 17 year old boy along to help out (although the boy is not immediately killed and the other civilians lie to him about the severity of the injuries)

He only shows remorse for this after other British soldiers have been taken on the ship and have remarked about the boy's poor condition. And at the end, when they have returned safely to England, and he sees the truth that the boy has died, after he makes eye contact with the other boy carrying the body of his friend off the vessel, what does he do? He skulks off into the crowd


Again, all the while, we see thousands upon thousands of British soldiers standing their post, remaining with their units, in spite of being faced with the same long odds of survival that our main characters are faced with

Why couldn't at least one of them been used to tell that perspective of the story?

The pilots. The civilians coming to the rescue. The top brass even, all shown as heroic.

Yes it was a desperate time. Yes desperate people do desperate things in desperate times. But they also do heroic things. And I, for one, wouldn't have minded if there was at least one British soldier protrayed who didn't act pretty completely out of his own self interest and survival for pretty much the course of the whole film



So, while I thought it was good, and well done, I don't think it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. And for the record, I'm not a big fan of saving private ryan either, although for entirely different reasons


I think all these things you cited help show the desperation of these men without ever having to show the battle(s) that led to them being on the beach. Indeed, the fact that every INFANTRYMAN we "meet" in this film (as opposed to the pilots or civilian boat crews) acts this way is telling and no coincidence. I feel like even for those British soldiers who didn't behave in this way, many/most had to have had thoughts that ran in these directions. Thus, these characters stand for many soldiers waiting to leave France. I thought it was excellent.
 
Posts: 1686 | Location: USA | Registered: October 26, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
In search of baseball, strippers, and guns
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Maybe....I think that the story would have been better served had it shown a soldier doing his duty faithfully, not withstanding it warred with his private feelings....especially since we know that's what most of them did

As I said, I understand why he did it...it may be telling, and no coincidence...it's also wrong....most of those men stood their ground, even when that was pretty much all they could do....if they had all given into their baser instincts like the characters in the movie, the evacuation would not have been as successful, and the proverbial day would not have been saved.

I don't fault anyone who really liked the movie. The question was why I didn't like it as much, and that's my main reasoning. I also thought it could have done with some character development, and without some of the cheesy stuff with tom hardy at the end, but to each his own

I'm glad it's doing well, because it will likely lead to more movies like this. It does try and show the desperate side of the situation without being overly graphic. I get it. As I said, though, it would have been nice to see the behavior of the characters juxtaposed to the bravery displayed by the typical British infantryman on that beach


——————————————————

If the meek will inherit the earth, what will happen to us tigers?
 
Posts: 7040 | Location: Bristow, VA | Registered: July 09, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Uppity Helot
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kevbo:
They weren't very redeemable characters. The RAF and civilians and the high brass even were portrayed as fairly heroic


I understand the stress and distress and reality of the situation, but I just didn't care for the characters they chose to tell that side of the story


quote:
Originally posted by RAMIUS:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevbo:


I was disappointed. Not that it wasn't good, it was, but it did not live up to my expectations. Without spoiling anything, my biggest problems were the characters, particularly the soldiers.



What was wrong with the soldiers? Were they replaced with black trannies? You can't leave me hanging like that...


I saw the movie last week and find myself much in agreement with those sentiments. I think the average Tommy was a bit shortchanged in his character assessment.

Still a good and entertaining movie overall and one I will add to my collection. The historical value alone, makes me glad that someone bothered to make it.
 
Posts: 1604 | Location: Manheim, PA | Registered: September 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of bigdeal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PASig:
I'm sorry but you guys that all hated this movie are crazy.
I am not. My mother had me tested. Smile

Wife and I went and saw it. Do I feel completely ripped off having paid to see it? No. Was it the blockbuster everyone seems to want to make it out to be? Not even close IMO. It will certainly earn a metric ton of money at the box office, but it didn't live up to expectations for me.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 26528 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get my pies
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Picture of PASig
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I think there are a whole lot of people not understanding that he's showing the SAME SCENES from 3 points in time and 3 perspectives; the Air, Land and Sea.

Just last night I saw some dude on FB bitching about how Nolan "reused" footage of a ship sinking. Ummm...it's the same ship!

If you are able to follow this, I think the movie is brilliant.


 
Posts: 23673 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
california
tumbles into the sea
posted Hide Post
yup, from the air you see the abandoned sinking ship with all of the guys swimming to the minesweeper that's also going down.
 
Posts: 9024 | Location: NV | Registered: July 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Republican in training
Picture of DonDraper
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Just saw this today in a badass theater "Xscape" http://xscapetheatres.com/xtreme-xscape

Top notch film. Incredible sound. Non stop "action". Was not too violent in nature.

It will win several Oscars. Do yourself a favor and see it in a proper theater. I wanted to see it in 70mm but I think I get the next best thing.


--------------------
I like Sigs and HK's, and maybe Glocks
 
Posts: 1708 | Location: SC | Registered: March 16, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not having seen it yet, Kevbo's review about the movi,e and the faults he sees with it, certainly reduces my interest. The British armed forces have a centuries-old reputation for courage, bravery, and stoic performance of duty, the film's focus on characters utterly lacking these traits is a major disservice to the British soldier. Of the hundreds of thousands of personnel involved in the Dunkirk evacuation the overwhelming majority did their duty, which is why it was the success it was. To highlight the aberrant and tiny minority that did not have any moral fortitude is typical Hollywood dogma.

I was hoping for an objective, if not patriotic, account of events. I should know better by now.




 
Posts: 3873 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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