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Picture of Ripley
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For the first time in about three decades, I fast-forwarded after the first round of pit stops, hyper-fast-forwarded. I rate this race a zero.


___________________________

Set the controls for the heart of the Sun.
 
Posts: 5208 | Location: Columbia, Illinois | Registered: December 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of P250UA5
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A very impressive run by the birthday boy.
I think there was enough gap to 3rd at the end for 1-2 to swap back.




The Enemy's gate is down.
 
Posts: 6253 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by P250UA5:
A very impressive run by the birthday boy.
I think there was enough gap to 3rd at the end for 1-2 to swap back.


I don't think that was ever the goal.
They just needed to figure out how to make it sound good to Bottas after the race.
I suspect they will make it up to him at a later race once it's clinched.
 
Posts: 4553 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of 280nosler
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
quote:
Originally posted by P250UA5:
A very impressive run by the birthday boy.
I think there was enough gap to 3rd at the end for 1-2 to swap back.


I don't think that was ever the goal.
They just needed to figure out how to make it sound good to Bottas after the race.
I suspect they will make it up to him at a later race once it's clinched.


I keep thinking that, then I come back to the fact the last 5 races are:
Japan
US
Mexico
Brazil
Abu Dhabi

Then I consider how much Louis loves Suzuka and how much his ego needs to win in the US, so those 2 tracks are out. That way his championship is running, this may be over by the time the US Grand Prix ends. The constructors championship is still relatively close, all things considered. Keep in mind a 1-2 yields 43 points, and a 3-4 finish is only 27, and there is only 53 separating the top two.

I think Red Bull better ought get comfortable with how Toro Rosso is finishing. They keep saying the engine is getting better from Honda- time will tell.




Nut up or Shut up!
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: 1200 yards out | Registered: January 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
The Toro Rosso problem was the front brakes on both cars, on the same lap. Not the engine but a car problem.
Gasly qualified well and the engine seemed to be doing pretty well.
The Red Bull car has easily been outperforming the other Renault powered cars. Daniel had a first lap front wing problem.
Engine reliability has been a big problem in addition to a lack of top end speed. That's why they started at the back today.
 
Posts: 4553 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
thin skin can't win
Picture of Georgeair
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The picture of Toto holding his head as the laps wound down was classic.



You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02

 
Posts: 9000 | Location: Madison, MS | Registered: December 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of P250UA5
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
quote:
Originally posted by P250UA5:
A very impressive run by the birthday boy.
I think there was enough gap to 3rd at the end for 1-2 to swap back.


I don't think that was ever the goal.
They just needed to figure out how to make it sound good to Bottas after the race.
I suspect they will make it up to him at a later race once it's clinched.


Agreed & Hamilton has said as much as well.
Bottas shot it down & said he'd rather win on merit & real racing than be handed the position.

I'm a big Bottas fan, and was upset by the move & think it should've been given back. Some comments I'd read indicated that Bottas was pretty much on cruise control & had a good bit more pace in the car.




The Enemy's gate is down.
 
Posts: 6253 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
Picture of SIGnified
posted Hide Post
F1= BBBBbbbboring!!!

I love the Suzuka track, but this 5 yr. dominance by Merc is unwatchable. Same for “road relevance” in racing entertainment.





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 22991 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
F1 needs to rethink the power unit supply situation. I understand that the better financed teams will always have an advantage.
I like Indycar's approach better. Standardize the mountings and connections required to fit the components for each manufacturer. Then the teams draw new engines (various components in this case) randomly, no matter who you are. If you run a Chevy it doesn't matter if it's Penske of Harding , they draw from the same pile. Honda teams do the same.
Example, in Q3 Mercedes and Ferrari can crank up the power to compete for the pole. In Q1 or two, Force India and Williams don't get the same option. Neither do the teams running Ferrari power. Maybe that option costs extra.
For the last few seasons we keep hearing that Ferrari have caught up or pulled slightly ahead. Then after a race or two Mercedes just seen to push the button and pull back out of reach.
When Rosberg was the other driver we got to see a true competition. Maybe it was just the two of them but it didn't seem so manipulated.
At the other end of the grid, the pay driver situation is another developing problem. Finances have always been there but seeing the Stroll's take over at Force India and boot Ocon out looks really bad. I'll be rooting for Perez to kick his ass next year and I'm not a great fan of his either.
On a slightly different subject, I didn't see Vlad Putin down at the Williams garage cheering on his new driver either.
 
Posts: 4553 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
women dug his snuff
and his gallant stroll
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
Example, in Q3 Mercedes and Ferrari can crank up the power to compete for the pole. In Q1 or two, Force India and Williams don't get the same option. Neither do the teams running Ferrari power. Maybe that option costs extra.

Wut? Confused
 
Posts: 10294 | Registered: August 12, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by HuskySig:
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
Example, in Q3 Mercedes and Ferrari can crank up the power to compete for the pole. In Q1 or two, Force India and Williams don't get the same option. Neither do the teams running Ferrari power. Maybe that option costs extra.

Wut? Confused


The factory teams clearly have a map that the non-factory teams don’t have. Otherwise teams like Williams would just turn up the power when they are struggling to get out of Q1.
 
Posts: 4553 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of 280nosler
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
quote:
Originally posted by HuskySig:
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
Example, in Q3 Mercedes and Ferrari can crank up the power to compete for the pole. In Q1 or two, Force India and Williams don't get the same option. Neither do the teams running Ferrari power. Maybe that option costs extra.

Wut? Confused


The factory teams clearly have a map that the non-factory teams don’t have. Otherwise teams like Williams would just turn up the power when they are struggling to get out of Q1.

Same engines, but not the same PCU or power control unit. Also, neither of those two teams have the downforce that Merc has, so power without downforce turns into spins and crashes. Of course, playing devils advocate, neither Sauber nor Hass share the same downforce, or PCU as Ferrari. Your example of Indy however would not work, because the EMU or car computer is what allows for the "party mode", not the engine. Plug in an engine from Force India into the Mercedes, and you have (in theory) just as fast of a car. F1 regulated the fuel flow, consumption, and displacement tied to the MGUH, not the throttle controls, driver, or downforce (to a certain extent).

There is a downside to the increased stress on the engines, and that is loss of compression and ultimately engine failure. I did an analysis earlier in the year and found that no other team in F1 over the past 2 years had a greater level of engine failure than Red Bull. Keep in mind, they program their own EMU and PCU, so I have no sorrow for them. Statistically speaking, they blew their Renault engines 28% more than other users, and while they have had great control over downforce, they have pushed the engine more than other teams, and been burned by it.

I'll say it again - they are in for a rude surprise with Honda.

As for Hamster running with Rosberg - it was a totally different mix. A) they grew up racing each other, were friends, and both thought they were the team #1 driver. You saw how that worked out with no less than three races where bother drivers suffered damage, and at least two I can think of where one of the driver was knocked out. Not every race went as smooth as Bahrain in 2013. Hammy and Bottas have a different dynamic - Bottas believes he is the "B" driver, he is a support person, and happy to have such a great ride. Hammy knows he is the shit, lets Bottas know it too, but is respectful with him.

Somehow I never remember hearing people so vocal about team orders back when Schumacher was having his team mate move over for him, and he was a prick telling the pit wall to move them of he would wreck them. Vettel never took orders from the wall when he raced against Weber either - Multi 21. As a matter of fact I think he wrecked Weber back to back in Korea when they were going for the title.

Point is that you have to have sharp elbows in F1. Bottas needs a better opportunity for equality, Louis will be Louis, Raikonnen was spayed by Vettel, and more less throws a hissy fit whenever his level headed teammates beat his ass (Weber, Ricciardo, Raikonnen). They are more less all pre-madonnas with the exception of maybe Ocon, Bottas, and Hartly.

Perez with man handle Stroll, until they withhold pay or fire him. That team may be doomed to fail by putting Stroll in that seat. The real looser is Ocon, who in my opinion is better than 1/2 of the field.




Nut up or Shut up!
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: 1200 yards out | Registered: January 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 280nosler
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quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
F1= BBBBbbbboring!!!

I love the Suzuka track, but this 5 yr. dominance by Merc is unwatchable. Same for “road relevance” in racing entertainment.

4 year dominance.

To be clear Red Bull/ Vettel won four, Mercedes has won four, and JB at McLaren won one.




Nut up or Shut up!
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: 1200 yards out | Registered: January 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
quote:
The real looser is Ocon, who in my opinion is better than 1/2 of the field.


I’d like to see Ocon take the Williams seat and kick Strolls ass in the “slower” car.
 
Posts: 4553 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
Picture of SIGnified
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 280nosler:
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
F1= BBBBbbbboring!!!

I love the Suzuka track, but this 5 yr. dominance by Merc is unwatchable. Same for “road relevance” in racing entertainment.

4 year dominance.

To be clear Red Bull/ Vettel won four, Mercedes has won four, and JB at McLaren won one.



Mercedes is winning this year easily. So I see 5 championships for them in Constructors. I’m not sure I understand your points. It’s just as boring when Vettel won 4 in a row.

Early developments like a blown rear diffuser made Braun (which becam Merc) strong for half of one season which JB won.

The current constraints in development, no spare cars (You must break curfew and build it up from scratch overnight in case of an emergency - how is that “cheaper”?), ridiculous grid spot penalties for upgrades/innovation and no testing is pure anti-racing in F1. Makes for a crappy entertainment product.

Look at next year ... forced (aero) simplification. Doh! How is that advancement and leading edge technology?


Watch it as much as you wish. I’m a long time fan back to the mid-1960s, but what we have now is a joke with sportscasters always pimping “viable” contestants to Merc; what a load of crap - no such thing. Merc has had the best car for 5 yrs; no contest. Hammy would be mid-field if he had to drive for Force India, Renault or back at McLaren. Double Yawn.





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 22991 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Novice Elk Harvester
Picture of ronnied316
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Yep, I agree with every single word of that SIGnified.


"SUCCESS only comes before WORK in the dictionary"
 
Posts: 381 | Location: Kitsap Peninsula, WA | Registered: July 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of P250UA5
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EekEekEek

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/...hrough-130r/3188357/

quote:
Sergio Perez believes Suzuka should have a DRS zone on the back straight that forces Formula 1 drivers to risk taking the famous 130R corner with the rear wing open.


More at link above. . .




The Enemy's gate is down.
 
Posts: 6253 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
Picture of SIGnified
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by P250UA5:
EekEekEek

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/...hrough-130r/3188357/

quote:
Sergio Perez believes Suzuka should have a DRS zone on the back straight that forces Formula 1 drivers to risk taking the famous 130R corner with the rear wing open.


More at link above. . .


Let ‘em race! Why do we have different rules for qualy again?





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 22991 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
thin skin can't win
Picture of Georgeair
posted Hide Post
quote:
Sebastian?
SeV: I’m not a big fan of DRS, so I don’t know. Now we are in Japan, I think Mario Kart, if you remember, it might be more fun to throw bananas out of the cockpit, so maybe it’s a better idea to have bananas than DRS. I don’t like it, I think it’s artificial. I think we should find a different way to make the cars follower each other closer and not rely on DRS.





You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02

 
Posts: 9000 | Location: Madison, MS | Registered: December 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
women dug his snuff
and his gallant stroll
posted Hide Post
I remember about 10 years ago when the Poison Dwarf suggested they randomly turn on sprinklers around the tracks to make the races more interesting. Doesn’t seem so far fetched now...
 
Posts: 10294 | Registered: August 12, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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