I'm watching the beginning of the first movie, where Gandalf is explaining the history of the ring to Frodo. When he mentions that Barad Dur has been rebuilt, it got me to wondering why that would have been allowed and why Mordor hadn't been occupied or incorporated into the realms of the forces which defeated Sauron?

Basically, Mordor wasn't occupied because it was a wasteland that wasn't conducive to supporting normal life.

However, the forces of Gondor did build and garrison a number of fortresses surrounding the edges of Mordor in order to monitor and block anything coming or going, including Durthang, Minis Ithil and Cirith Ungol. They even took over and garrisoned the Black Gate.

But over the 1000ish years prior to the books, Gondor fell into decline, the strength of these fortresses dwindled, and they were all eventually abandoned or lost as Sauron's allies regained their strength and began taking over the fortresses and occupying the areas of Gondor bordering Mordor. Gondor was weakened and increasingly stretched, so they couldn't afford to reconquer and hold these lost areas. They were limited to fighting a desperate defensive battle in the territory between Gondor and Mordor.

Similarly, by the time Barad Dur was rebuilt inside of Mordor, Gondor wasn't strong enough to invade Mordor and do anything about it. They were barely strong enough to prevent their enemies from taking even more of Gondor's territory.

*mic drop*

You have a very complete answer.

Someone should consider reading Simarillion.

Oh and keep a sharp pencil far, Far, FAR from hand in case you feel the urge to poke your eyes out with it.

Oh and as Rogue alludes to, Mordor was a wasteland, unable to support life or other things which grow (hence a great breeding ground for orcs). Gondor was the kingdom to overlook the comings and goings of Mordor, but Gondor grew lazy - as a whole.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Someone should consider reading Simarillion.

Oh and keep a sharp pencil far, Far, FAR from hand in case you feel the urge to poke your eyes out with it.

I tried reading LotR before the movies were released. It literally took me five consecutive days to read the first page. It was just too different from normal English. I gave up on trying to read it further.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Someone should consider reading Simarillion.

Oh and keep a sharp pencil far, Far, FAR from hand in case you feel the urge to poke your eyes out with it.

Yeah, there is a lot of background information in The Silmarillion, and some good stories. But as a whole, it is damn near unreadable.

Not gonna lie, I am jealous of that collection!

I cannot improve upon Rogue's answer. Here is a biography of Tolkien as done by Indy Niedell and the Great War series. Tolkien was born in South Africa. His father died when Tolkien was age three. At the age of four Tolkien could read and write, home-schooled. Tolkien fought in the Battle of Somme. This episode is well worth watching.

https://youtu.be/TvVh-DVhroQ

I enjoyed the Samarillion quite a bit... It may not be your cup of tea but some people have enjoyed it.

Also at least as far as the current day in the Lord of the Rings, the caretaker of Gondor, Lord Denethor, was using one of the Palantir and as a result Sauron was able to exert control over him and what actions Gondor was taking.

RogueJSK feel free to correct any or all of that...

How is Children of Hurin?

And so - was Tom Bombadil a Maia, or not?

quote:

Originally posted by Mikito:
Also at least as far as the current day in the Lord of the Rings, the caretaker of Gondor, Lord Denethor, was using one of the Palantir and as a result Sauron was able to exert control over him and what actions Gondor was taking.

It's not explicitly stated either way in the books, but I don't believe that Sauron was able to directly impact Gondor's action via Denethor and the Palantir.

If Sauron does have some amount of control or influence over Denethor, it clearly is not nearly as strong as with Saruman, since Denethor and Gondor continue to resist Sauron and his forces, even after Denethor has been using the Palantir.

However, the book does say that Denethor's use of the Palantir has aged and weakened him, and that Sauron uses the Palantir to cause Denethor to eventually fall into depression and despair, by showing him twisted visions in an attempt to convince him that all hope is lost, which ended up contributing to Denethor's decision to kill himself.

Even if Denethor's actions were being influenced by Sauron, it had only been for a couple decades at most, since apparently Denethor didn't start using the Palantir until sometime after his wife had died and his sons had attained manhood. Gondor's decline and Mordor's resurgence had been going on for more than 1000 years by that point.

A 1000 years is a LONG time. The only human institution we have that is that old I think is the Catholic Church.

I started in on TLotR in 5th grade - that would be during the Johnson administration - and I deny that it's an obsession.

Rogue has accurately answered in 200 words a question that can trigger a thread of 200 posts. If you think a 9mm vs 45cal discussion can get ugly, just bring up Balrogs and wings in a Tolkien forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc H.:
And so - was Tom Bombadil a Maia, or not?

From what I have read over the years, he was NOT a Maia. There were only 5 of those that I know of - Gandalf The Gray, Sauruman The White, Radigast The Brown, and two others who did not have names (though I think one was blue).

He was just this weird thing that I don't even think Tolkien could adequately explain. I, like many Tolkien fans, just pretend he doesn't exist. It's much easier that way than trying to explain him (or Merriweather, whatever the heck SHE is. . . ).

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

quote:

Originally posted by Doc H.:
And so - was Tom Bombadil a Maia, or not?

From what I have read over the years, he was NOT a Maia. There were only 5 of those that I know of - Gandalf The Gray, Sauruman The White, Radigast The Brown, and two others who did not have names (though I think one was blue).

He was just this weird thing that I don't even think Tolkien could adequately explain. I, like many Tolkien fans, just pretend he doesn't exist. It's much easier that way than trying to explain him (or Merriweather, whatever the heck SHE is. . . ).

Actually, Alatar and Pallando (Blue Istari), and Sauron himself was a Maia, but there were many, the number not even known to the elves. So sayeth Tolkien.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

From what I have read over the years, he was NOT a Maia. There were only 5 of those that I know of - Gandalf The Gray, Sauruman The White, Radigast The Brown, and two others who did not have names (though I think one was blue).

There are many more than 5 Maiar. You're thinking of the Istari (wizards), a subset of Maiar, of which there were 5 mentioned in the books. All Istari are Maiar, but not all Maiar are Istari.

There at least 15 named Maiar in all the books.

Arien
Aiwendil (Radagast)
Alatar (one of the Blue Wizards)
Curumo (Saruman)
Eönwë
Gothmog
Ilmarë
Mairon (Sauron)
Melian
Olórin (Gandalf)
Ossë
Pallando (one of the Blue Wizards)
Salmar
Tilion
Uinen

And many more whose names we don't know (including a number of Maiar who were corrupted by Morgoth into Balrogs, like the one awakened in Moria).

It's possible that Tom Bombadill is a Maia, but there's no specific evidence that this is the case. It's clear that he is some sort of powerful spirit, though. More powerful than even the Istari.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

From what I have read over the years, he was NOT a Maia. There were only 5 of those that I know of - Gandalf The Gray, Sauruman The White, Radigast The Brown, and two others who did not have names (though I think one was blue).

There are many more than 5. There were at least 15 named Maiar in all the books:

Arien
Aiwendil (Radagast)
Alatar (one of the Blue Wizards)
Curumo (Saruman)
Eönwë
Gothmog
Ilmarë
Mairon (Sauron)
Melian
Olórin (Gandalf)
Ossë
Pallando (one of the Blue Wizards)
Salmar
Tilion
Uinen

And many more whose names we don't know (including a number of Maiar who were corrupted by Morgoth into Balrogs, like the one awakened in Moria). It's possible that Tom Bombadill is a Maia, but there's no specific evidence that this is the case.

They took whatever form they chose, human, Elvish or Spirit, They had powers not shared by mortals, and were essentially immortal. Bombadil was eldest, before elves or men. Tolkien hints at it, but left the question, saying there should always be some mystery. I prefer to think so, and Goldberry as well. Perhaps the first, unique Maiar.