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It’s starting to make sense why Suzuki chose this year to bring back the colors of their first ever Grand Prix championship winning motorcycle. Yeah sure it was an anniversary of the company becoming incorporated but it also sends a message.

Suzuki believes they have a real contender this year. The GSX-RR’s corner speed is nearly untouchable. Each year they make up more ground in the top speed department.

Mir and Rins will need to step up their qualifying game. There is a lot of season left but so far I am absolutely loving it.



As far as Rossi and him forming his own team after the 2021 season...That is very interesting. That is around the same time Suzuki is considering a satellite team. I doubt he will leave Yamaha but who knows.


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Posts: 21074 | Location: San Dimas CA, the Old Dominion or the Tar Heel State…flip a coin  | Registered: April 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Are the satellite teams guaranteed parity with the factory teams?

I know in F1 there were years where it wasn't a requirement, so the customer teams never had the latest/greatest powertrain developments & were always a step behind.




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Posts: 15150 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by P250UA5:
Are the satellite teams guaranteed parity with the factory teams?


No. Not a chance in hell. Only in recent years have a few factories got close to evening it up. Ducati with Pramac, because Pramac has some real talent via the young riders and they want to give them the opportunity so they have 2020 bikes and near the spec of the factory bikes. Same for KTM, because KTM hates HRC so bad, they don't care and it's the kitchen sink. The Tech 3 bikes are near equal to the factory KTM's.
Yamaha gave Fabio factory machinery because he earned it and Fabio's manager pushed and shoved, and Yamaha didn't want to lose Fabio to a rival mfr so they caved.

In the recent past, the Satellite bikes were last year's bikes and/or the satellite team would inherit the factory bikes of the previous year. It's so competitive in the field now, that the factories have changed their stance. Even HRC is giving Taka near factory support because Marquez is out. But no, it's not a rule or requirement. And the satellite teams do not have the amount of engineers and laptop jockeys that the factory team does.

quote:
Originally posted by stickman428:

Suzuki believes they have a real contender this year. The GSX-RR’s corner speed is nearly untouchable. Each year they make up more ground in the top speed department.


As far as Rossi and him forming his own team after the 2021 season...That is very interesting. That is around the same time Suzuki is considering a satellite team. I doubt he will leave Yamaha but who knows.


Suzuki have a weapon but it's the chassis, and really the 2020 Michelin tire giving them fits in qualifying. The bike just can't utilize all the grip of the new rear tire. So in qualifying, the chassis, the bike, has a limit on grip and when there is more than it can handle the rear tire pushes the front tire and makes the Suzuki riders life absolute hell. But when grip falls, that's where the Suzuki chassis is the best in the field. That's why you see Mir coming through the back mid to end of race and clipping people. That's the ideal time when the bike outperforms. Tires are started to lose grip, and lots of Michelin rubber laid down. That new rear tire is also giving HRC and Ducati absolute hell which is why Dovi has been no where. Dovi has said the 2020 Michelin rear requires a 180 approach to braking and corner entry, and it's contrary to everything natural as a rider. Suzuki could correct this with a chassis change that would enable a fast lap in qualifying but it could, at the same time, ruin the race performance mid to late race. Each bike has its' pros and cons.

If Valentino fields a satellite Suzuki team for his Sky 46 team, it won't have anything to do with him being a Yamaha rider for life, and ambassador for the brand. He won't hop on one of the two bikes and ruin his ambassadorship with Yamaha. It's too lucrative of a payout. But this could change. Davide Brivio and Valentino are as thick as thieves. Brivio ran the Yamaha team when Rossi switched from HRC to Yamaha in 2004. So Rossi and Brivio won all the Yamaha championships together. I know Valentino is still frustrated with Yamaha for them not letting him develop the M1 for his riding style. It's costing Valentino valuable time at the end of his career where he wants on that podium and wants to win. Rossi won HRC three championships in a row from 2001 through 2003 aboard the 2 stroke NSR, the last of the 500's, and the 990cc RC211v, the best MotoGP and race bike ever built. And he walked away, so he has done it before. I wouldn't be surprised if he did it again, as the Suzuki is a match for Rossi's riding style, and the only other bike on the grid that matches his riding style, but today I'd say doubtful. Vale has enough cash so if he splits to Suzuki and not just his Sky46 team, it'll about pure passion for the sport if he were to do this.



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Posts: 12568 | Location: Down South | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There is of course some factory support depending on the situation but factory teams will always keep certain things close to the chest.

This is a good article on the cost of running a GP tram & role of satellite teams in MotoGP and their relationship with manufacturers. Link to article on GP team cost

Good article on role of satellite GP teams


What is interesting is that sometimes the “improvements” on factory bikes actually move them a step back as the riders struggle to adjust to the changes.

2020 has been an interesting year as the satellite teams have been performing quite well. I suppose it’s because of the collective struggle to adjust to the new Michelin tires. Whatever the cause I’m loving how unpredictable it’s made MotoGP!


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Posts: 21074 | Location: San Dimas CA, the Old Dominion or the Tar Heel State…flip a coin  | Registered: April 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks, that all makes some sense.

So different to F1 where a powertrain (PU) supplier may not be a constructor. Not really an option in GP, where the bikes are not far off from what you or I could actually buy.




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Posts: 15150 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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World Super Bike runs motos based off production motorcycles. MotoGP bikes are prototypes with a mind blowing list of consumable parts and astronomical cost to operate.


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Originally posted by stickman428:
World Super Bike runs motos based off production motorcycles. MotoGP bikes are prototypes with a mind blowing list of consumable parts and astronomical cost to operate.


Right, but I can go buy a Yamaha R1 or Suzuki GSXR tomorrow.
Can't go buy anything remotely close to a modern F1 car.

While the consumer versions of supersport motorcycles are far from the performance of the GP machines, You can at least buy 'close' without dumping 7 figures into it.
with F1, the only one I'm aware of is the Mercedes One, which has a detuned F1 powertrain in it.




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And that my friend is the beauty of motorcycles. You will never find anything in the auto world that offers as much performance as a motorcycle for so little money.


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And that my friend is the beauty of motorcycles. You will never find anything in the auto world that offers as much performance as a motorcycle for so little money.


Yep, even my middleweight 650 PTwin gets 0-60 quicker than some sports cars. 4.6 sec IIRC.




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Ducati's new aero package for this weekend Big Grin


 
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Yeah I know it’s not likely to happen but it sure looks nice eh? Big Grin



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At this point I’d chip in for it man. Let the man and his team develop the bike for his riding style. His old ass will be right there at the front. Bike is being developed for an alternate riding style. Fabio and Maverick ride a bit like Lorenzo. Rossi is the opposite and hard as fuck on the brakes, then blam the bike is on the side in the turns. The chassis and weight distribution is not made for him. He’s been riding someone else’s bike for years.



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The timing and fact that the M1 & GSX-RR are somewhat similar bikes does make it a possibility. If Suzuki manages to capitalize on this chaotic and unpredictable season and win a championship then announce a satellite team for 2021 does that make such a move by Rossi more or less likely? Does it have an impact? I want to think if Suzuki managed to pull it off this year there would be a lot of interest in getting more GSX-RR bikes on the grid.

The GSX-RR has been slowly and consistently getting better every single year, especially this year. Yes, it’s still getting spanked on the straights by Ducati but not as badly as it used to. The bike is agile and absolutely a weapon when it comes to corner speed and battles towards the end of a race. I loved seeing Mir respond to Fabio’s positive comments about the Suzuki when he said “I wasn’t aware Fabio rode my bike”. Big Grin

I would love NOTHING more than the biggest and most iconic name in MotoGP to win a championship with my favorite manufacturer in MotoGP. Hell, It would be euphoric to see him just join the team so long as it doesn’t end up a disaster like Ducati. The statistics of this happening are astronomical but it would be amazing. Yes, a championship this year would be awesome but I think I’d rather have Rossi on the team even more than wining a season where everyone struggled, especially considering the defending champ has yet to return (I hope he takes his sweet time to come back Big Grin).

There is a lot of season left and everyone is talking about how Mir has a shot at the title and how he has flown under the radar. I’m not getting my hopes up this is anyone’s championship. I’d be ecstatic to see Maverick win it all this year.



Did you guys catch the video that followed Mav, Mir and Espargaro right after the race? I loved seeing the back and forth banter between Mav & Mir and Espargaro, especially when they were in the van talking about contact on the last few laps. It was very cool to see them asking about various riders, how they finished and what happened to them during the race. It was neat to see them just being themselves.


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I'm certainly no Suzuki fan boy. They did some questionable shit over the years. I mean Kenny Jr. is the last one to win a title on one, and that was 20 years ago, and Rossi and Burgess later regretted not going for it the first year because they could have won. The questionable shit was when it went to MotoGP, 4 strokes. Prior it was known as Grand Prix and the 500cc class, or premier class. Suzuki's first 4 stroke era was just a cluster and Hamamatsu just was terrible at supporting the team, bike and riders. IIRC, Chris Vermeulen won one single race at LeMans, I think 2007 and only because it rained, heavy rain too. That was it until Maverick put a win on it at Silverstone in 2016.
So prior to modern day they would field a team but wouldn't support it really. Thankfully that has changed and I will give them credit. They didn't bitch out and go home permanently like Kawasaki did. The first four strokes Kawi was the same as Suzuki. They'd field teams but wouldn't put any real money into the program so their poor riders would just consistently over ride the thing into the gravel. I mean John Hopkins is the bionic man with all the screws, titanium, etc in him and much of that was the Suzukis.

Rossi going there and swinging a leg over it is different than his Sky Team taking over as their satellite outfit. I just know Rossi will be a Yamaha Ambassador. Same as Wayne Rainey, King Kenny, or Ago. That's like a lifetime retirement deal with the factory that is lucrative. All the ex-rider has to do is show up a few times a year for promotional events and attend a round or two of MotoGP each year. I doubt Vale would risk that ambassadorship but he's a wild card, always has been. It was a coo when he told HRC to go fuck themselves at the end of 2003, having just won 3 championships in a row. Nobody thought he'd leave, and nobody thought he'd stand up to HRC telling him he'd just be another HRC rider with no #1 status after 3 back to back championships. Biggest coup since Lawson flipped from Yamaha to Rothmans Honda in 1989.



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Posts: 12568 | Location: Down South | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My prediction for this year.

With HRC effectively out of the fight currently this is Ducati or Yamahas Championship to lose. Suzuki is a bit of a wild card this year but I think right now and especially if he can build upon the confidence boost of his recent performance Maverick is who I see winning it all. I don’t know what they did but those engine issues seem to be a thing of the past.


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As a newbie, definitely seems a Yamaha year, just edging out Ducati.

With the late surges, Suzuki could be the sneak in longshot. A run of podiums, even if not wins could put them at/near the top.




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Twice Mir has had a bit of rotten luck and still done ok. Czech GP where he was taken out early and in decent position by another crashing rider. Then the aftermath of Mav bailing on the M1 at Austria. It’s going to be wild to see how it all plays out.

When was the last time you remember it being this wide open mid way through the season?


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Never, absolutely never in the modern era or in the 20+ years I have been watching. And Mir has a definite shot. Suzuki's bike is just built for mid to late race and not qualifying. They solve their qualifying problems and Mir is going to be a real problem for everyone. The Suzuki has got more motor than Yamaha and can handle just as well. It's down on power to HRC or Corse, but not so far like Yamaha is.

Mav is not the favorite by a long shot. Fabio or Maverick could win it. Hell Binder could surge. He has the talent and speed, just lacking the experience of having a full year under his belt in the premier class. Dovi could do it if Corse can get their heads around the new rear tire. Bags would have a shot without the injuries. You have the first 10 riders in the championship with 27 points between them. That is nothing. It's all going to be about who can solve their bike woes in the second half of the season and analyzing the tracks coming up to see which bikes work the best. We have a number of Ducati tracks coming. Low grip vs high grip. Yamahas work better with high grip, Ducati and Honda work better with low grip. And Suzuki seems to be the most consistent. If the engineers for Suzuki can figure out how to retain all their current strengths and solve the qualifying issues. Well Dovi, some of the Yamaha guys, are all fearing Suzuki if that happens. It's the only thing hampering them right now. Single lap performance. That's a chassis change and some 0's and 1's via the laptop jockeys. There is no clear favorites for this championship. It's anyone's game in that top 10. Just remember we have tracks coming with actual straights. That's benefit to Ducati, KTM, and HRC. Ducati should be feared if their rear tire issues get solved. Nobody can match that bike. KTM and HRC are close but will still get blasted. Then Suzuki, Aprilia, and Yamaha is dead last as usual in straight line speed.



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Posts: 12568 | Location: Down South | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This seems like the appropriate place to post this.

Something interesting to consider regarding those controversial winglets that are on all the GP bikes now. The new BMW “M” series motorcycle, the M 1000RR track day weapon has aero/winglets that create 36 lbs of downforce. It’s not even quite as aggressive as some of the GP teams aero. I bet those GP teams are making some serious downforce. Eek

Link to article for more info





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I sat on a M color S1000RR at the local dealer. Not nearly as committed of a riding position than I expected.
The Moto2 Daytona across the showroom floor was much more laid down.




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