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Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:

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Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
I really think they redeemed themselves from Ep4 to Ep5. Yes, it's too fast but it put to bed the invincibility of Scorpion and all Cersei's little tricks.

I was going to be REALLY pissed if the Bells were just a ruse to get the attacked forces inside, then have a trap.

Honestly, Mad or Not, Dany was just OVER IT. She's listened to people who have betrayed / failed her for 2 Seasons - gotten 2 of her dragons killed - wasted valuable allies. Tyrion, Varis, Jon, Sansa, etc.

Now burning the entire city down is 'a bit drastic', she should have just circled and decimated the Red Keep after doing the Iron Fleet / Scorpions / Golden Company - but I understand her position.

Its still a hell of a leap from "I'm going to wreck all my enemies and burn them to ash", to "I'm going to deliberately target civilians, roasting children alive".

They weren't just collateral damage at that point, she was specifically targeting them.

She obviously snapped, will be interesting to hear what she says about it.

I think part of it may be the "if I can't have it, no one can have it / no one will want it", as I'm sure she still fears Jon being supported, etc. Or a wider interpretation of "ripping it out, root and step".

To me the big WTF is what did Varis expect to do with Drogon? Like he'd just sit back and take a violent overthrow of Dany? I know ppl think Varis was going to for the poison angle, but I think Drogon would have just gone crazy and started burning shit down.

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Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:

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I'm wondering if we're going to see a moment when Dany tells Drogon to Dracar-Jon's-ass, but he doesn't do it.

Or he does and it doesn't work... then everyone knows Jon is a Targaryn, so she will have given up the secret she wanted so desperately to hide.

Jon really is the Ice and Fire - Stark and Targaryn

Yeah but if the fire doesn't work he just has to eat him. I think it is much more plausible that the dragon just won't do it.

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Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
I really think they redeemed themselves from Ep4 to Ep5. Yes, it's too fast but it put to bed the invincibility of Scorpion and all Cersei's little tricks.

I was going to be REALLY pissed if the Bells were just a ruse to get the attacked forces inside, then have a trap.

Honestly, Mad or Not, Dany was just OVER IT. She's listened to people who have betrayed / failed her for 2 Seasons - gotten 2 of her dragons killed - wasted valuable allies. Tyrion, Varis, Jon, Sansa, etc.

Now burning the entire city down is 'a bit drastic', she should have just circled and decimated the Red Keep after doing the Iron Fleet / Scorpions / Golden Company - but I understand her position.

Its still a hell of a leap from "I'm going to wreck all my enemies and burn them to ash", to "I'm going to deliberately target civilians, roasting children alive".

They weren't just collateral damage at that point, she was specifically targeting them.

That's the rub that many have with how we've gotten here. As it stands, the line of reasoning is her dad was a crazy nut, thus she had some crazy in her, all it took with some ego bruising to bring it out. The last 7-seasons, she's been managing and overcoming all manor of obstacles yet, she lands on Westeros and gets ruthlessly greedy while ignoring or, dismissing all manor of advice available. Let's face it, she wasn't very good at managing her council whether it was civil affairs or, military tactics. I have no problem if the story line is that the Dany's coin landed crazy-side up, just progress it along so that it reflects that, rather than having her sulk and internalize it.

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If there's no longer anyone alive with a clear, rightful claim to the throne, and nobody with enough military might left to unite Westeros by force, then the most likely outcome is that the Iron Throne's rule ceases to exist, and the Seven Kingdoms revert back to separate sovereign states.

That was my thoughts.. Nobody gets the throne in the end...

Of all remaining "characters" able to rule - Tyrion would be the most capable and just. (assuming Snow doesn't want it)

Just gonna throw it out there - don't forget Ser Davos was ready to execute Melisande more than once for her burning one child, so it's would't be out of left field for him to kill Dany.

That being said, I'm not sure anyone armed other than Unsullied and Dothraki will be allowed near Dany. Gray Worm was already treating Jon like an untrusted visitor/potential captive during a pre-battle meeting, and that was before he saw Jon defy Dany's clear wish to decimate the populace of King's Landing.

If I had to bet on who takes out Dany, I'm putting my money on Arya again. She still seems to have a destiny being guided by supernatural forces. Recall the small, white, wooden horse the little girl was carrying, and how a white horse showed up for Arya. And of course for practical reasons, she's the most capable of getting close to Dany.

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Originally posted by Graniteguy:
Of all remaining "characters" able to rule - Tyrion would be the most capable and just. (assuming Snow doesn't want it)

Davos is capable and just, but lacks a "respectable" bloodline.

After reflecting on Episode 5....I think it would be most appropriate to have Septa Unella follow D & D for the rest of their days repeating "Shame, Shame."

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Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
Cersi => Dani; “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.”

Hey, that's my line!

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Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
After reflecting on Episode 5....I think it would be most appropriate to have Septa Unella follow D & D for the rest of their days repeating "Shame, Shame."

Bell optional?

My current theory is that next episode will not be turbocharged. The finale will bring back intrigue and plot in order to set up the final battle. Just as all the pieces fall into place for the last showdown...fade to black.

"Enjoy the last book, folks!"

My daughter is in a mad scramble to get caught up so she can watch the finale with her mother and I. I re-watched most of season 7 with her and there is a bit of foreshadowing about Dany's state of mind.

If you think back through the show, there is a decent amount of hinting at madness. Her madness is typically aimed at people who are "bad" though. She fried/crucified the slavers in Mereen. She didn't bat an eye at her brother getting his head melted off. She burned the witch alive that killed Drogo and made her barren. She torched Sam's father and brother. She has said multiple times that she would take back what was hers with fire and blood.

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Originally posted by YellowJacket:
If you think back through the show, there is a decent amount of hinting at madness. Her madness is typically aimed at people who are "bad" though. She fried/crucified the slavers in Mereen. She didn't bat an eye at her brother getting his head melted off. She burned the witch alive that killed Drogo and made her barren. She torched Sam's father and brother. She has said multiple times that she would take back what was hers with fire and blood.

Yes, there were multiple times where her advisers had to explain to her why killing innocent/mostly innocent folks wasn't a good idea. She's always been willing to shed blood/burn flesh if it furthered her mission of obtaining/maintaining power or punishing everyone in the "guilty" group. She's always been an ends-justify-the-means kinda girl. For me the writers just haven't done a good job of reconciling her as the Breaker of Chains but also the same person who could torch a million innocents. They didn't depict a descent into madness, as much as a sociopath with a sense of justice when it comes to slaves, I think. I'm not saying she was shown as a pure sociopath, but more that than a person who went insane.

So Varys was trying to poison Dany when his little bird kitchen girl was checking on her?

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Originally posted by RAMIUS:
So Varys was trying to poison Dany when his little bird kitchen girl was checking on her?

That's my assumption. Girl works in the kitchen, girl tries to bring food to the Queen, girl tells Varys she hasn't been able to, Varys say try again at dinner.

Pretty bold, considering Grey Worm would likely figure it out an kill Varys, but then again he said he would do what he felt was right even at great personal risk to himself.

And the Red Woman said he would die in Westeros.

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Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

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Originally posted by RAMIUS:
So Varys was trying to poison Dany when his little bird kitchen girl was checking on her?

That's my assumption. Girl works in the kitchen, girl tries to bring food to the Queen, girl tells Varys she hasn't been able to, Varys say try again at dinner.

Pretty bold, considering Grey Worm would likely figure it out an kill Varys, but then again he said he would do what he felt was right even at great personal risk to himself.

And the Red Woman said he would die in Westeros.

Recall Varys removed his rings and placed them in a cup before he was taken away in shackles. Perhaps the rings were payment to the girl for what she'd already done, or for what she was still expected to do. Also, it's possible there was a poison crystal in one of the rings, similar to the necklace Sansa wore which carried the poison that killed Joffrey, though that seems unlikely.

The explanation I saw that that the ring he removed is apparently his "Allegiance Ring". All of Dany's inner circle apparently started wearing them last season, including Varys, Tyrion, Jorah, and Grey Worm. So it's Varys symbolically shedding his last remnant of loyalty to Dany.

Here's a link to the ring at the "official jeweler" of Game of Thrones.

https://www.mey.london/shop/ga...nes/allegiance-ring/


Still, it's odd that 99.9% of show fans wouldn't get such an obscure reference, since it's never been mentioned or shown before.

Therefore, maybe there really is something else to it, and it'll come back up in the finale.

Or it could have just been a nod to the super-duper-overly-obsessed fans, who have every bit of minute trivia memorized.

I just assumed it was like that scene in Donnie Brasco, the one where Sonny takes off his watch and jewelry and hands it to the bartender right before he gets whacked. He knows he ain't gonna make it and doesn't want his personal belongings tossed in a landfill.