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Picture of Rev. A. J. Forsyth
posted
Went to the range yesterday and brought out my Remington 597 Laminate chambered in .17 HMR. For the uninitiated, this gun was recalled shortly after release back in the early 2000's. Being a blowback design, firing a relatively high pressure, fast moving cartridge, the bolt opens while chamber pressure is still high. On my particular rifle I find maybe one in twenty case necks to be slightly cracked. I always wear glasses while firing this gun, and didn't send it back during recall due to my love for it.

On about the 30th shot yesterday I squeezed the trigger and heard an odd popping sound. The base of the magazine blew out, with spring, follower, and baseplate striking the bench and going into orbit. The magazine release button was stripped from its plastic housing. The case was ejected halfway out of the ejection port, remaining stuck between extractor and bolt face. To me, it looked like an out of battery firing, or possibly a defective case. Unfortunately I inadvertently tossed it. This particular gun has at least 1000 rounds through it, if not more. I've used it extensively as a backup gun on varmint hunts. I believe this instance to be from a defective case with an out of spec wall or base thickness. Any other ideas?
 
Posts: 761 | Location: Manufacturing Ghost Town | Registered: April 01, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have not yet begun
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Picture of KMitch200
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Call me Captain Obvious but my first un-educated guess is being a blowback design, firing a relatively high pressure, fast moving cartridge, the bolt opened while chamber pressure is still high and nuked the case.

You knew the gun was recalled just because of this. It has demonstrated the failure (in less dramatic fashion) in your own hands.
Continuing to use a gun with a KNOWN design problem that has already nearly blown some of the rounds fired strikes me as foolish.
Out spec case? Really?


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 2942 | Location: AZ - West side of the valley | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Rev. A. J. Forsyth
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quote:
Out spec case? Really?


Really. Law of averages. 1000 plus rounds, nothing but split necks, which also happens to be the weakest part of the case. Now all of a sudden the path of least resistance is the thickest area of the case? I'm still on the fence with it being out of battery.

Call me captain obvious, but I doubt Remington just puked these guns out without any testing. I would assume that the quantity of split necks during firing was considered tolerable.
 
Posts: 761 | Location: Manufacturing Ghost Town | Registered: April 01, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of fyimo
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I wouldn't consider a large percentage of split necks as being acceptable. I would send the gun back to Remington wanting it fixed or a refund.


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Posts: 9092 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: July 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Remington recalled the gun for safety reasons. Not like the sig maybe recall. Don't use it, send it back. etc. no unequivocal about it. So OK you don't agree with the recall and keep the gun. But anything like using it and then complaining is somewhat disingenuous to me and not wanting to insult a fellow sigforum member s******.
FWIW>


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 7297 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth: Any other ideas?

You are using a defective firearm.

https://www.remington.com/supp...t-safety-warning-and

"Safety Warning And Recall Notice
17 HMR AMMUNITION AND MODEL 597® 17 HMR SEMI-AUTOMATIC
DO NOT USE REMINGTON 17 HMR AMMUNITION IN SEMI-AUTOMATIC FIREARMS.
DO NOT USE THE REMINGTON MODEL 597 17 HMR SEMI-AUTOMATIC RIFLE.

Remington has been notified by its supplier of 17 HMR ammunition that 17 HMR ammunition is not suitable for use in semi-automatic firearms. The use of this ammunition in a semi-automatic firearm could result in property damage or serious personal injury.

If you have a semi-automatic firearm chambered for 17 HMR ammunition, immediately discontinue use of Remington 17 HMR ammunition.
 
Posts: 40288 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of sourdough44
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Yes, sounds like a serious issue, I’d have to echo the advice of sending it back.

I like the 17 HMR for smallish to coon size varmints. I have a Ruger 77/22 mag with a Shilen 17 barrel, and then a Cooper.

I’d shop for a replacement.
 
Posts: 3525 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have not yet begun
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Picture of KMitch200
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
quote:
Out spec case? Really?

Really. Law of averages.

Not everyone that plays russian roulette dies. Some hear a click, some don't hear anything.
It's still foolish. (and yes, Rem did screw the pooch on this one)

Hope you can still get your $250 out of a kerflooeyed gun.


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 2942 | Location: AZ - West side of the valley | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
Any other ideas?

You've known the gun is defective for over a decade. It has repeatedly shown problems with cracked necks on cases. You're wearing safety glasses, with the knowledge the gun is defective.

You're fortunate you haven't experienced a major injury.

You're frickin' ignorant if you do anything other than dump that gun like a hot stinking turd.
 
Posts: 5603 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
fugitive from reality
Picture of SgtGold
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
Went to the range yesterday and brought out my Remington 597 Laminate chambered in .17 HMR. For the uninitiated, this gun was recalled shortly after release back in the early 2000's. Being a blowback design, firing a relatively high pressure, fast moving cartridge, the bolt opens while chamber pressure is still high. On my particular rifle I find maybe one in twenty case necks to be slightly cracked. I always wear glasses while firing this gun, and didn't send it back during recall due to my love for it.

Any other ideas?


Yeah, take the money and run!


_____________________________
'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'.

 
Posts: 5952 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
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quote:
Really. Law of averages. 1000 plus rounds, nothing but split necks, which also happens to be the weakest part of the case. Now all of a sudden the path of least resistance is the thickest area of the case?



Stands to reason that the spring is going to weaken with cycles, leading to a greater chance of an OOB discharge. I would be sending that thing back to Remington. Having a .17HMR blow up in your face doesn't sounds like any fun at all.
 
Posts: 2912 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Don’t shoot defective firearms.
 
Posts: 40288 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Duly noted on all accounts for the safety aspects.

I guess I should rephrase my question. What does everyone think that the worst case scenario would be from a bolt opening while chamber pressure is too high? What is the absolute worst failure imaginable, and what would it look like? How would that failure happen? Do you think the receiver could detonate? Bolt fly back through your head?

I believe that when the case ruptured the gas blew out in a wide arc, say 270 degrees. The paths of least resistance were out of the semi-opened ejection port, and down through the magwell.

I agree that I lucked out on this one, and don't plan on shooting the rifle anymore. I also don't want to give it back for $250 and would rather just bury it in the safe.
 
Posts: 761 | Location: Manufacturing Ghost Town | Registered: April 01, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Repressed
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
Duly noted on all accounts for the safety aspects.

I guess I should rephrase my question. What does everyone think that the worst case scenario would be from a bolt opening while chamber pressure is too high? What is the absolute worst failure imaginable, and what would it look like? How would that failure happen? Do you think the receiver could detonate? Bolt fly back through your head?




An uncontrolled explosion inches from the face is not something to invite. Paul Mauser, the great firearms designer, lost an eye because a rifle action either failed or fired out of battery, and I'm certain you can find other folks who have been injured or permanently maimed by catastrophic failures.


-ShneaSIG


Oh, by the way, which one's "Pink?"
 
Posts: 10630 | Location: MO | Registered: November 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
What is the absolute worst failure imaginable, and what would it look like?

I agree that I lucked out on this one, and don't plan on shooting the rifle anymore. I also don't want to give it back for $250 and would rather just bury it in the safe.

As I see it, you're just planning to tuck the rifle away for awhile. You'll shoot it again once the cautions from this thread (and maybe others on different sites) have faded. You'll justify your actions by thinking the worst won't occur. And assuming nothing more than a few more split cases and non-serious booms occur, you'll keep shooting it.

Adieu.
 
Posts: 5603 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Sock Eating Golden
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Did you have an odd instance requiring you to push the bolt into battery just before the KB?

I was present for a 517 KB. Best we could figure a bullet separated from the case and lodged in the barrel. The operator forced the bolt and next round into battery. The result was quite spectacular. Fortunately he and his daughter were wearing PPE as the fragments went everywhere at very high velocity.


Nick



"I cannot imagine any condition which would cause a ship to founder. I cannot conceive of any vital disaster happening to this vessel. Modern shipbuilding has gone beyond that."
-Capt. Edward Smith
 
Posts: 5732 | Location: NE Ohio | Registered: November 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of IndianaBoy
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
Duly noted on all accounts for the safety aspects.

I guess I should rephrase my question. What does everyone think that the worst case scenario would be from a bolt opening while chamber pressure is too high? What is the absolute worst failure imaginable, and what would it look like?

I agree that I lucked out on this one, and don't plan on shooting the rifle anymore. I also don't want to give it back for $250 and would rather just bury it in the safe.



Frankly, this is crazy. You could snag a 17HMR bolt gun from savage for $250. What possible gain could come from 'burying it in the safe'?

It gets sold years from now to someone unsuspecting? A relative takes it home after your funeral and loses an eye?

Why?
 
Posts: 13229 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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It has been said that you can't fix stupid.
 
Posts: 40288 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It is incredibly irresponsible to shoot this gun with a known defect!!! If you don't care about yourself then what about the guy next to you???
 
Posts: 769 | Location: South Dakota | Registered: May 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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quote:
Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
quote:
Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
Duly noted on all accounts for the safety aspects.

I guess I should rephrase my question. What does everyone think that the worst case scenario would be from a bolt opening while chamber pressure is too high? What is the absolute worst failure imaginable, and what would it look like?

I agree that I lucked out on this one, and don't plan on shooting the rifle anymore. I also don't want to give it back for $250 and would rather just bury it in the safe.



Frankly, this is crazy. You could snag a 17HMR bolt gun from savage for $250. What possible gain could come from 'burying it in the safe'?

It gets sold years from now to someone unsuspecting? A relative takes it home after your funeral and loses an eye?

Why?


Totally agree and this is where my mind first went to. That plan turns the rifle into a land mine for the good Reverend’s successors. “Well, I stepped in it knowing it could blow up. Hell, I tap-danced on it for years! When it finally blew up on me, I was surprised. But it only partially detonated. I think I’m going to just leave it buried in the backyard but not dance on it anymore. I could call the bomb squad, and they’d pay me a $250 reward to remove the landmine, but for that money, I’d rather just leave it in the yard. But I’m not gonna dance on it anymore.”

The continued shooting of the thing after knowing about the recall had me raising an eyebrow. The conclusion the OP came to about the proper course of action after all that... just....

 
Posts: 9715 | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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