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I would like to get involved shooting different clay shooting activities. The shooting club I belong to has numerous shotgun shooting courses.
I have a dedicated trap gun ( Lujtic mono gun)but nothing that really fills the bill for other courses of fire.
I originally thought about a semi-auto ( A300 or A400)but read that it is very annoying to have your spent cases eject into other shooters standing nearby. I also don't like the idea of retrieving spent cases off the ground ( BAD KNEES).
This got me thinking of a over-under 12 gauge.
At my age and with a limited amount of use, I don't want to invest thousands for a O/U, but still want a quality gun. I have been looking at used O/U guns.
The Weatherby O/U,and CZ,have caught my eye for affordable options for a new gun.
What are your thoughts for the range etiquette of shooting a semi-auto?
What used O/U guns( under $1500) would you suggest?
I was lucky enough to find two 12 gage Browning Citori O/U shotguns - a beautiful Grade 3, and a Grade 1 from Estate sales. I think I paid $1600 for the Grade 3 and $1100 for the Grade 1. Both were perfect for clays and have been field guns as well.
I hope you are as fortunate, and enjoy the sport.
I agree on the Browning Citori line. I shot one for several years on sporting clays courses. Never had a malfunction . Browning Lightning Sporting Clays edition. 30" backbored barrels with custom chokes.
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I had a Beretta A400 Multi-Target and it was good for all things, and I have a magnet on a stick to pick up the hulls, (and no one was bothered by the hulls) since 5-stand or sporting clay's no one was to my right, and in Skeet same thing, I ended up with a Beretta Combo set, O/U for doubles and sporting clays, and the single for trap.
Magnet on a stick - https://www.amazon.com/MOJO-Ou...id=1601059826&sr=8-3This message has been edited. Last edited by: archerman,
I see Citoris used for under $1500 all the time. 12 ga are cheaper and more prevalent than sub-gauges. You can also sometimes find Miroku-branded guns that are the exact same (Miroku makes Browning's Japanese guns) and in the $800 range. If you're set on an OU for that price point, it's hard to do any better.
But I also wouldn't let the shell ejection necessarily determine what you get. You can install a shell catcher and you can pick up hulls with a magnet on a stick. And like is said above, that's really only a trap problem as in sporting clays and skeet, the other guys are behind you and with 5 stand, there is often a little divider wall between stations.
I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log.
I’m a 686 man myself (also own Citoris) and much much more prefer the Beretta. But that is what fits me best off the rack. I shoot it instinctively and naturally. Can’t miss.
You can easily find Beretta 686’s under 2k. Under $1500 NIB may be a stretch though. I would approach some shooting clubs nearby. They occasionally will have used loaner guns for sale. Those will most definitely be beneath $1500.
Would not consider a Beretta 300 series SA. It’s mostly the Beretta name you’re paying for as the parts are outsourced and then assembled. You need to go up to the A400 to get the real Beretta goodies. And for that money in a SA, I would be looking at Fabarm....IMO.
I have a variety of O/U shotguns, one Browning Citori 12 gage Sporting Clays, two Beretta 686 in 12 and 20 gage, and two CZ shotguns, a SxS in 12 gage and a 20 gage O/U.
First off the CZ shotguns are very good value for money shotguns. About the only fault with CZ is that they are a bit lacking in the re-jointing options that are standard with the Beretta shotguns. A big plus for hte CZ is they feature reliable Mechanical triggers so shooting with 410 sub caliber tubes in the 12 gage means you won't have to have the triggers converted to funtion properly with a near zero recoil caliber. BTW, I shoot Skeet and the registered shoots are 4 caliber affair with rounds using 12, 20, 28, and 410 gages.
Brownings are great guns and my Citori is a near perfect "Fit" for me. So good that I have had to install stocks with adjustable risers on both the Beretta 12 and 20 gage. Note, the 20 isn't installed yet, just finished doing the conversion and am now working on putting a nice oil finish on the stock. After 15 or 20 coats of True Oil it should be ready to mount. As for the features and durability of the Browning and the joint is completely re-buildable so it's easily a 100 year shotgun. BTW, I picked up mine used for 800 dollars due to a previous owner who new how to apply a nice finish but didn't no how to block sand a stock, that was the waviest piece of wood I've ever seen on a shotgun. Point is there are bargains out there with any brand and one advantage is that you probably won't have to break in the joint.
No to Beretta. I purchased my first Beretta new as a treat to myself for surviving open heart surgery. Out of the box that joint was so stiff that to break the gun open required putting a leg over the barrel to gain more leverage. The same was the case with my 20 gage. Brand new Beretta's are stiff and you need to plan on about a year of steady shooting before they start to loosen up. One the plus side they are very well balanced and oversize lock pins and trunion's are available that make re-jointing the shotgun is simply a matter of swapping out parts. In addition the triggers on the Beretta shotguns are exceptional with no creep at all. So, like the Browning the Beretta's are 100 year guns.
To sum it up, if you are just getting your feet wet the CZ is a great choice. They are well made, reliable, and feature a fit that is a near match for the Beretta. As for price I purchased my CZ Teal at Cabela's in 2018 for 499.95 and more recently I've seen the Teal selling for about 700 dollars on sale and I think 899 when they are not on sale. Note, one other plus for the CZ is that they typically have prettier wood than the Beretta 686 series. Basically with the CZ Teal (a model specific to Cabela's) you get a 1400 dollar shotgun for about 900 or less if it's on sale.
I'll also suggest that getting a used gun can be a good thing, because breaking in a brand new stiff shotgun can be a bit tiring at times. Take my Browning or example, it was built in 1992 so it's had a lot of shells run through in in 28 years. Fact is that some would call it "loose" and maybe ready to be re-jointed. However when it's locked up there is not even a hint of movement between barrel and receiver. So 28 years of use and the joint is still rock solid but it's a very easy to operate shotgun. Get a good name brand shotgun and you can usually save 50-60% over what it would cost new. BTW, on a used shotgun you will want to test the joint. Lock the barrels closed and then remove the forearm. Then try to move the barrels in the open close directions and side to side. If you see any movement at all that is an indication that the joint needs to be serviced. On a used gun if the joint isn't rock solid walk away, because re-jointing a Browning can run 400 dollars or a bit more and another brand may be even higher. BTW, a Beretta costs about 1/2 what it costs to Re-joint a Browning. A plus for Browning is the wear surfaces are about 3 times the area of those on a Beretta, so odds are a Browning could go 2 to 3 times as long as a Beretta to require re-jointing.
I've stopped counting.
Great posts all.
One thing - my son and I shot together a lot. We also would challenge each other, especially around dove season, to use our older Remington pump shotguns (870, Wingmasters), or older simis(Remington LT 20, Remington 11-48) to play the clays games. It was a “blast” so to speak.
Regards to all.
I also have a Ljutic Mono. Great gun.
For an O/U I second/third Browning Citori. I have the trap model, which has a 70/30 POI. They also have a sporter model which I think would be a better fit for you given your intended purpose. I picked up my Citori used for under $2000 and it was in pristine condition. Barely shot.
BTW -I would also suggest you look for a model with an adjustable comb, since, as you know, fit is very important.
Used to shoot clays with a Caesar Guerini Summit Sporting, then switched to a Fabarm Axis, which I really liked and was much cheaper.
So, my recommendation is the Fabarm, give them a look.
I have a Beretta 682 Gold E sporting. I think it’s perfect. I’d go beretta. As nice as you want to spend.
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Browning Citori, Beretta, Caesar Guerini, CZ are all nice. I own a Beretta Silver Pigeon Sporting and it is sweet.
But don't overlook a Benelli semi-auto. They are my favorites. I have the older Sport model, and now they offer the Legacy Sport and the Supersport. Great clay guns.
(OK. Reread your OP. You don’t want a semi-auto. Sorry.)This message has been edited. Last edited by: 2Adefender,
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For what it's worth. I bought a semi-auto for 5 stand & wobble trap. Wish I had gotten a O/U. I hate picking up 100+ shells at the end of a session.
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The Weatherby and CZ O/Us are good values for new shotguns. If you're not looking at high-volume shooting over many years, they should be fine for you. As you have experience in trap, understand that fit is important. Therefore, shoulder any shotgun before buying it.
If you think your non-trap shooting will eventually amount to tens of thousands, consider a more expensive and better built O/U. The next step up is the "B" guns -- Browning and Beretta, both of which should last tens and tens of thousands of rounds, with some maintenance. New B guns are out of your price range. You will have to do some searching for quality used B guns for $1500. There are numerous models -- model number, field vs. sporting use, and year of manufacture. Since you're looking at a clays gun, you will be more happy with a sporting shotgun than a field shotgun. Again, be sure to shoulder any gun before purchasing it.
Beretta O/Us tend to have their weight balanced right at the hinge pin, which makes them feel like they're fast swinging from one target to the next. Brownings are often weight balanced a little forward of the hinge pin, making them feel a little slower on the big swings -- but a little more steady on the clays with minimal swing movements. Both types of weight balances work, and most experienced shooters can switch from one type to the other with little effect on hit percentage.
My best advice is to shoot as many other people's guns as possible prior to buying a new/used shotgun. Most shooters are happy to show you how their shotgun is the uber-most-bestest in the world -- as long as you are providing the ammo. Bring high quality factory ammo.
I have no issues with using a semi-auto shotgun for any purpose. I currently own only O/Us and a pump.
Semi-autos have no hull-ejection issues in skeet, sporting clays, 5-stand, or FITASC. There are anal-retentive wound-way-too-tightly trap shooters who get their knickers in a wad when empty hulls bounce at their feet. Call the wahhhhmbulance. I have burn scars from spent 223 cases going down my shirt during team AR15 practice -- it didn't stop me from shooting, it didn't disturb my aim, and it didn't make me do anything unsafe.
If you decide on an O/U take a look at the Winchester 101. It's a great gun for close to a grand. I would definitely get it over the Weatherby Orion.
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I feel the familiar feeling of wallet hemorrhage as I start looking. I'm a sucker for fine wood and craftsmanship also tradition.
The Browning Superposed has caught my attention.
I like the old school build and that Browning built and designed the gun. I have read about the "salt" guns and cracking of some of the steel internal parts.
How do you rate this gun?
A true Browning Superposed will start at 4000 dollars in used but not abused condition. BTW, with the Superposed the forearm is slid forward to break the gun down for transport, so you end up with just two parts to put in your case. With the more recent Browning's (really a Moroku) you first remove the forearm and set on something stable then remove the barrel from the receiver. This is one reason why the SUperposed commands such high prices and the other is that they are highly collectable.
As someone mentioned the Winchester 101 as I understand it the 101 is now constructed by Moroku in Japan and then finished/engrave in Belgium.
I will also note the Browning Moroku story is rather interesting. Basically Moroku started out by sort of copying the Superposed with some aspects changed to reduce manufacturing cost. Browning at that time was looking for a shotgun they could sell that would be less costly than the rather complex Superposed and instead of being offended by Moroku's copy they instead met with Moroku to produce a version for Browning. That shotgun was originally called the Citori and that particular name is still in use for some of Browning's shotguns.
Point is that be it a Browning, Moroku, or Winchester 101 you can be certain of having a fine shotgun that will last for many years.
I will note that I am a bit conflicted between Beretta, Browning, and CZ. I have all three brands and really cannot decide which is my favorite. What I can say is you can't go wrong with any of these 3 brands.
I've stopped counting.
I see superposed for under $2k in 12ga regularly. Maybe I'm missing what you mean by "true" superposed.
I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log.
The Browning Superposed is a great shotgun. I have a field (26" barrel) 20ga and I inherited a field 20ga and field 12ga from my father.
I wouldn't use one for really high-volume clay shooting (thousands of shells a year). I don't think the durability is there compared to some of the modern clay guns. I've had a couple of ejectors break on these guns.
I also wouldn't recommend a lightweight or field model OU for clay games. I'm not recoil shy but even after adding a good limbsaver recoil pad to the 12ga, it gets pretty unpleasant by the end of a full round (100 clays) of sporting clays.
A heavy OU with longer barrels is a better option, but I went and bought a Fabarm semiauto for clay games a while back (they're designed specifically for clay games and have a receiver designed only for 2 3/4" shells - so the receiver is shorter than autos that can take 3" or 3.5" shells). It is MUCH more pleasant than a field OU if I'm shooting a lot.This message has been edited. Last edited by: maladat,
I grew up with Beretta and Browning over and unders. The CZ guns are probably good choices for the average hunter, but I'm not sure they'd hold up for as heavy use as the Browning and Beretta guns.
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