quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:
Thank you! That vortex sparc AR red dot is tempting for $160 instead of $550 for the aimpoint.

For a range gun, I have been pretty happy with my SIG Romeo 5 - the mount it comes with is the weakest link so I put it in a ADM mount and it rides on my Colt LE6991 9MM AR SBR.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:
Thank you! That vortex sparc AR red dot is tempting for $160 instead of $550 for the aimpoint.

For a range gun, I have been pretty happy with my SIG Romeo 5 - the mount it comes with is the weakest link so I put it in a ADM mount and it rides on my Colt LE6991 9MM AR SBR.

I have the 5- and agreed. The stock mount was weak so I put mine in a Geissele T-1 mount...

I cheaped out and bought a vortex sparc AR gen 2. I also have a Romeo 5. I’ll give these a try but will probably end up with another Aimpoint down the road.

I do notice that some of you aren’t even using a red dot, just iron sights. Pros and cons?

quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:
I do notice that some of you aren’t even using a red dot, just iron sights. Pros and cons?

RDS Pro - Accuracy, speed

Irons - cost (when compared to an Aimpoint).

Every soldier / airman / marine uses a rifle with a RDS / ACOG / Optic. They aren't doing that to waste money - speed and accuracy are improved, especially as range increases.

The other day I was shooting my Noveske with NF 2.5-10x24 with 3.25 MOA RMR piggybacked. At the end I shot just using the RMR on top, on steel torsos 12x18" at 100/200/300 - rapid fire, 30 round magazine, 10 rds on each target - all hits in under a minute except 2 misses getting the 300 yard hold down

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RHINOWSO,

I keep going back and forth on my all around handy carbine.

Colt 6720
DD mk18 with a can
PSA pistol lower with BCM ELW 11.5" (could put the can on this one, too)

The colt is light and not crazy expensive, but longer.
The DD is heavy but short and reliable and with the can, not deafening.
The pistol is short but the collapsable brace is heavy and I'm not sure about the PSA lower long term.

I'm considering selling the mk18 upper, putting the BCM ELW on the dd lower and adding the can. I just kinda hate having a 2 stamp gun lying around.

I had a pig SBR for awhile (Novseke SS 10.5 barrel and qual rail) and it was a breath of fresh air to go to a BCM ELW 11.5".

Like night and day different.

If you are concerned about NFA stuff, just bite the bullet and get a 13.7-14.5" upper with a pinned and welded muzzle device. No more worries.

I'll add I keep my rifles locked up - well, any weapon for that matter - my CCW is my house gun, my car gun, my truck gun. There are rare times when the threat level has gone up, like 2 years ago when 2 meth-heads were on a murdering home invasion rampage, that I have the SBR/Suppressor out and with me or right next to be while I sleep. But those are rare occasions, as I believe unattended firearms to be a liability (in general), as I have kids around - even well trained / safety conscious, I believe its on the adult if a weapon left out is used by a child.

I think I’m going to sell the mk18 upper. Apparently the RIS II rail is in pretty high demand. I’ll slap on the BCM ELW 11.5 and maybe throw the suppressor on there when In the house. Also found a T1 I’m not using so I’ve got that covered. Just need a light.

quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:

I do notice that some of you aren’t even using a red dot, just iron sights. Pros and cons?

YMMV, but for me, my eyesight got worse with age, and I can't see shit, so iron sites no longer work. Presbyopia, Astigmatism, the need for bifocals --- sucks, but you learn to appreciate good optics real quick.

Its pretty universally accepted that a RDS is faster than irons, especially when shooting dynamically (moving, shooting from odd positions, etc).

The only downside to a RDS is a quality one costs more than irons, and even so most people still have BUIS, so it's an added cost. But some of the new Chinese sights (Holosun, SIG Romeos, Vortex) have proven pretty durable and long battery life, so even RDS are more 'accessible' to people with different budgets.

I have a Romeo 5 and other than disliking the illumination adjustments (prefer dials to buttons), once it is set and you are moving and shooting, it's pretty hard to tell any difference between it and my Aimpoints. Granted, I have more faith that the Aimpoints will work if dropped, tossed, rained on, submerged, and beaten on, but that's really it.

Not saying irons can't be fast or accurate, but if you give them both a try off the bench and moving on a timer, you'll see the difference.

I’ve got red dots on all of my training guns. I just noticed some of you didn’t on your house gun/handy carbines.

My only AR without an optic is the "CAR 15" semi-clone I built. It has a 16" LW barreled A2 upper and handles outstanding.

I'm a huge believer in dots, splurged on an H2 for my HD SBR, the other ones get less expensive Primary Arms models. I have a general purpose AR set up with a 3x ACOG as well.

quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:
I’ve got red dots on all of my training guns. I just noticed some of you didn’t on your house gun/handy carbines.

For a house gun? Unnecessary. Just gets in the way. I can hit a man-sized target at 50 feet with an AR, not even using iron sights, and I imagine any experienced rifle shooter can do the same. Try it at the range. Shoulder your AR, cant it 45 degrees to the left and just sight down the barrel. You'll be able to put all your shots within a 10 inch circle.

I don't mount an RDS on a home defense rifle because I don't need it, and using iron sights, I can hit the same 10 inch circle at 150 yards all day long, and so can you.

But when it comes to a WML (Weapon Mounted Light)) I think that's a good idea. Helps one ID the target as "friend or foe" and can help see what is beyond the target in the background.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
I'm a huge believer in dots, splurged on an H2 for my HD SBR

Same here, plus WML. My go to carbines have to be able to hit from 0-100yds on my property (hogs, yotes, etc) and optics are faster / more accurate, especially as distance increases.

Well, I don't live on a ranch or in the sticks with "hogs and yotes". I live in the suburbs, with my neighbors' homes not 30 seconds walking distance from my front door. I can hit what I need to hit without the aid of red dots and, quite frankly, without using any sights at all.

But, for those of you in the great wide open, more power to you.

My new 6920 HBPW will likely remain with iron sights, though I may replace the rear MagPul BUIS with a MaTech. Was giving some thought to a Geiselle trigger, charging handle and recoil buffer/spring combo. Sort of a KISS sleeper carbine. I think it may be my favorite, even over my SOCOMs. I really like the 14.5” barrel and GI handguards. It’s just a simple, well executed little carbine.

RHINO - No rush but when you get a minute can you please email me....Need to ask you about something...Thanks Mark

226 - email OTW

Was just listening to Jocko with Dick Thompson on, a Vietnam SOG guy and he talks a lot about stress. He was saying an engagement with close enemy he couldn't even see the sights on the rifle. All that marksmanship and aiming went out the window and it became who gets the shots off the fastest.

I remember talking to a sheriff a long time ago and he was saying they drill a technique where they don't aim. It was called instinctual shooting or something like that. But he basically described exactly what Para said about bringing the rifle up canted and getting off a couple shots quickly. Said if you train it you'd be surprised how well it works. I can concur, especially close and for speed.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:
I’ve got red dots on all of my training guns. I just noticed some of you didn’t on your house gun/handy carbines.

For a house gun? Unnecessary. Just gets in the way. I can hit a man-sized target at 50 feet with an AR, not even using iron sights, and I imagine any experienced rifle shooter can do the same. Try it at the range. Shoulder your AR, cant it 45 degrees to the left and just sight down the barrel. You'll be able to put all your shots within a 10 inch circle.

I don't mount an RDS on a home defense rifle because I don't need it, and using iron sights, I can hit the same 10 inch circle at 150 yards all day long, and so can you.

I’ve trained a lot with red dots. A little with irons. I admit I really haven’t tried point shooting with a carbine. I can imagine that it works pretty well at reasonable distances. I can also imagine looking through a T1, even turned off could produce similar or even better results. I’ll try both.

Good info. Thanks.