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posted
Guys, my daughter (just turned 14, 5'8" but just 118 lbs soaking wet-skinny) is just getting into shooting trap. She is (IMO) very fortunate that her school has a trap team, and she's got the fire in her belly for it right now. Naturally, dad wants to feed said fire.

Her coach says she needs something with shorter LOP than an adult gun, suggests she start on 12 ga and get used to it since 20 ga doesn't kick that much less, and says something akin to a Beretta 3901 RL would be a great starter shotgun. He might as well be asking me to jog to the moon to get it, because I cannot find one. No longer made, becoming super hard to buy if you find one.

I read that the LOP on the 3901 RL is around 12.5-13.5". I do know that the grip diameter will play some role in comfort, but wondered if the hive might have suggestions for other auto shotties that she might think about? While I would love to have someone with experience in trap shooting chime in, if you know of good alternative guns that won't make me get a 2nd mortgage, I'd happily listen.

As always, appreciate any and all help you might offer.


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"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
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Posts: 5371 | Location: Mogadishu on the Mississippi | Registered: February 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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When I first started shooting trap I shot a lot of rounds with an 870 pump action field gun. They can be had for decent price and with a little creativity the stock could be shortened. Brownells would probably have some adjustable butt plate assemblies. Or pads. Might look on trapshooters.com and check through the threads there or ask there. I read something there about weighting the gun for reduced felt recoil.

Trap shooting is a lot of fun. I've been away for a couple years and I'm starting to get the urge myself.


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Posts: 1816 | Location: Douglas County, Colorado | Registered: July 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am 5-9 and find I can shoot well with 12.5-13” LOP.

Remington 1100 and 1187 is the lightest recoiling shotgun I have used. I have 2 that I use with over 30,000 rounds each through them with out replacing anything including the rubber o-ring. I tried Beretta 682 O/U, Browning Citori, and even borrowed my friends Lutjec and Krieghoff. I still feel less recoil with the Remington. I noticed another factor, I flinched more from the muzzle blast of the 12 over 20 gage and had to concentrate more. My partner, who shoots very well and has been known to go 400+ birds without missing uses 20 gage tubes in his Krieghoff for skeet.

My recommendation? Get her a 20 gage Remington 1100 to begin with. It will be light, and easy recoiling. A 12 ga throws more shot but may be too heavy for her. Others will say it is outdated and blah blah blah, but they work reliably, and are not expensive. The Benelli and Beretta recoil operated shotguns can beat up a beginner and discourage them. Good luck in whatever you choose.




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Posts: 2089 | Location: SE Mich-- USA | Registered: September 10, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've noticed that Winchester SXPs have a shorter lop than most other brands without going to a youth stock.


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Posts: 2339 | Location: TX | Registered: October 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Two forums to keep your eye on:

Shotgun World Forum: https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/index.php Friendly, wide range of topics and good advice.

Trap Shooter - https://www.trapshooters.com/ Focus on Trap, VERY opinionated with good advice. One drawback, you need to have 50 posts to use the classifieds. Yes, even to buy.

The downside? Prices on both may be a bit higher. The Upside: In general these folks take good care of their firearms.
 
Posts: 217 | Location: North of Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: January 29, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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i would not discount the browning BPS trap Micro.
The BPS is an outstanding shotgun and a great value. At least check it out.




"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 13873 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I started skeet when I was 5 foot and less than 100 pounds. I used my uncles Remmington 1100.
Couple of years ago I toying with the idea of buying a dedicated skeet, trap and sporting clays gun. Rented and shot a number of guns.
Had a young lady at the range let me shoot her Benelli M2. It had chokes for all the above. She was 5 foot or so and probably 115 pounds. She was very active in skeet and trap and it was her only gun.
That was my favorite of all the guns I shot. Recoil was very managed. Just a great shooting gun.
I broke 23 of 25 in my first round with it where I normally struggle to make 20.
 
Posts: 1247 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: March 18, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here's a Browning Micro 12 ga 26" for $900 new.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/797050272



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Posts: 3120 | Location: Sunnyside of Louisville | Registered: July 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Slabsides, you have mail.





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Posts: 28467 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Do not get her a pump. Get her a semi auto which will eat up 40% of the recoil. I'd say start her with a 20 gauge Remington 1100 youth. Or you could do a 12 gauge Remington 1100 youth. It fits all of your criteria including budget and is versatile.
 
Posts: 17880 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I disagree with Jimmy. I shoot a Beretta AL390 and a Browning BPS trap. My bps is an older fixed full choke. A dream to shoot. The Beretta is a bit softer. 40%, no way imho.
We have several young girls that shoot 12ga at our club. Some shoot pumps without any issues.
Btw, the Browning doublesharp linked to is a field gun, not a trap gun.




"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 13873 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Try many, buy one. Benelli, Remington semi-autos should be looked at hard. A good gunsmith can help with the fit.



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Posts: 9362 | Location: Colorado  | Registered: July 23, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would defiantly go semi auto, so she can shoot doubles not going to do that effectively with a pump , and if she want's to do skeet. I have a 303 Beretta its an older model and shoot it very well.

something to check out

https://www.benelliusa.com/ultra-light-shotgun
 
Posts: 4943 | Registered: February 09, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by old rugged cross:
I disagree with Jimmy. I shoot a Beretta AL390 and a Browning BPS trap. My bps is an older fixed full choke. A dream to shoot. The Beretta is a bit softer. 40%, no way imho.
We have several young girls that shoot 12ga at our club. Some shoot pumps without any issues.
Btw, the Browning doublesharp linked to is a field gun, not a trap gun.


In a gas gun (semi auto shotgun) the gas diverted out of the gun to cycle the action are not exiting the barrel and whatever percentage of gas diverted is the percentage of recoil reduction from the gun. A Remington 870 recoils quite a bit more than an 1100 with the exact same configuration and shells.

A shooter can graduate from any shotgun to another. A 20 gauge youth 1100 is a great, soft shooting gun, with a ton of aftermarket parts for, and if you want to sell it, you can sell it in a NY minute. Various barrel lengths are easy to come by to shoot various sporting clays, a new stock can be bought to turn it into an adult, etc. etc. You're not giving up much at all by going 20 gauge over 12 for trap or skeet. Skeet 20 gauge is faster to recover from and if you want to shoot doubles trap or skeet, you're at a HUGE disadvantage with a pump.

You don't need a dedicated trap gun to be good. A 28-30" barrel, a modified choke, and a decent gun that fits you and you can be consistently very good.
 
Posts: 17880 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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First, American Trap is a single shot sport, so no need for a semi. Fact is you could use basic single shot or even a bolt action.

I would suggest you look at a Pump action if she's only doing Trap. A basic Remington 870 costs about 330 bucks new and a used Wingmaster in good condition can be had for around 400 dollars if you can find one for sale. BTW, used 870 Wingmasters don't show up as used guns for a good reason, they are so easy to shoot well with the owners hate to part with one. Another Pump action I am quite fond of is the Browning BPS which sell new for about 600 dollars. BTW I have both at 870 and BPS that I have used for Trap and they are basically dead even in shootability in Trap.

If your daughter wants to also try shooting Skeet then you will want a good "starter" Over/Under. In this type I would recommend you look at CZ USA, they have a wide range of Turkish made shotguns that are an excellent value for the money. I would also suggest you seriously consider getting a model that has Extractors instead of a model with Ejectors. The reason for this is because at a public range you are expected to police your hulls and if you have extractors you can break the gun open and lift the hulls out of the chambers to drop in a belt pouch. That is a bit more convenient that "bellying" the gun to keep the hulls in the chambers. In addition shotguns with Ejectors are typically more expensive than models with extractors. BTW, I have a 20 gage CZ and it's an excellent value. Note, you won't typically find the CZ O/U lineup at a big box store but you will find any GOOD gunshop can and will order one in from a distributor. As for cost, CZ O/U shotguns range from about 700 bucks up to about 1200 or so for the top line model.

Finally, concerning Length of Pull. First, a 5'8" your daughter isn't going to need a very short length of pull, most likely she will need about 14 inches LOP. Some shotguns today come with a stock a bit on the short side and a selection of spacers to lengthen the LOP, so something like the CZ mentioned above may fit perfectly with just the butt pad mounted. It is also dead simple for a good gunsmith to shorten a stock to the exact length of pull you need. Save the chunk cut off and you can use that as a spacer to lengthen the stock in the future. BTW, you could try cutting it yourself but if you cut the stock off square you will find out that replacing a butt stock is usually quite expensive. Note, one exception to this is the Remington 870, they have been in production for so many years there is a huge variety of vendors selling replacement stocks for the 870 and a basic plain walnut or luan stock is pretty inexpensive.


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Posts: 4324 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^^Ever try to shoot doubles? Kinda tough with a single shot.^^^

The worst advice the OP has gotten is to go with a pump or O/U. Recoil is cumulative.
Recoil is what's left after the impulse of overcoming the inertia of the projectile, the inertia of the gun and gas propelling the projectile up to speed. 2 different 9 pound guns shooting the same load will have X amount of recoil. Action type doesn't enter into it.
BUT...semi-autos lengthen the recoil impulse a bit and feel "softer". Same process as a recoil pad. That means shoot more -> more often.
(IMO, the amount of gas used for the action is negligible)

A good fitting gun is a joy to shoot, a poor fitting one is a bitch.
A gunsmith who does stock work can change the LOP and add spacers later if needed. I would suggest adding an adjustable comb if you have the funds for it. When the gun is shouldered, if her eye is already lined up with the rib without canting the gun or moving the head, the adj. comb isn't needed.

Just as an example, Buds has a Rem1187 for $600.
Check around for used!!


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After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 3301 | Location: AZ - West side of the valley | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I just purchased a Benelli Super Black Eagle 3. It shoots eight inches high and ten inches left at 25 yards. Tried every shim it came with, still shoots high and left. After a little research online I've found it's very common with the SBE3. My buddy's new Beretta A400 Extreme Plus shoots POA. It was about $400 less and seems to be the better gun.
 
Posts: 1809 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by KMitch200:
^^^Ever try to shoot doubles? Kinda tough with a single shot.^^^

Have you EVER shot Trap? Load for doubles and many ranges will ask you to leave. Because it is a Single Shot Sport and shooting twice at one bird is considered illegal.




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Posts: 4324 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have not yet begun
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Well I guess that answers that question...
Have you EVER entered a tournament? Didjawonder why there is a "Doubles" catagory???

Shooting DOUBLES really is a thing.
It isn't a second shot on a lost bird. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


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After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 3301 | Location: AZ - West side of the valley | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Double Trap is a separate from the sport of Trap and isn't that common in the US, at least not in my area. I also suspect that Doubles Trap can and has been shot with a Pump Action shotgun. We have one fellow at our range who shoots Skeet with a Pump and you have a lot less distance with Skeet than in Trap.

The OP asked about a Trap gun suitable for his daughter who is 5'8" inches tall. So, if you are going to purchase something for a young women just starting out are you going to spend 4 or 5 grand on a dedicated Trap gun or are you going to choose something that will be easy to sell and doesn't cost a lot in the event she loses interest. Odds are good he'll be looking for the latter. In which case the Remington 870 is the near perfect choice.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Scooter123,


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Posts: 4324 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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