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Franklin Armory has announced an AR-15 type rifle with an 11.5" barrel and a conventional stock that is NOT an SBR.



There is a lot of speculation on how they accomplished this. They have said that it is not a smooth-bore. They'll announce it at SHOT Show. I think the popular speculation is that they've redesigned the operating mechanism so that the barrel extends 4" into the upper receiver along with the 11.5" external length and a permanently attached flash hider. The upper seems to have a larger block for the cam pin to operate.


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Posts: 208 | Registered: June 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think it has to do with the Binary Trigger, which is so prominently highlighted in red in the promo photos.

A rifle is defined as "a weapon intended to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

A "machine gun" is defined as "any weapon which shoots automatically more than one shot by a single function of the trigger".

A binary trigger fires one round when the trigger is depressed and one round when the trigger is released. Seems like that could be considered two shots per single "pull" of the trigger, but only one shot per single "function" of the trigger (with depressing and releasing considered separate "functions").

Therefore, if it's built from the get-go with a binary trigger (rather than a rifle that's has had a binary trigger installed later) it doesn't seem to fit either of the bolded portions of the definitions. And if it's not a rifle and not a machine gun, it's simply a "firearm".

That's my semi-educated guess.
 
Posts: 19577 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Exodus:
Franklin Armory has announced an AR-15 type rifle with an 11.5" barrel and a conventional stock that is NOT an SBR.

There is a lot of speculation on how they accomplished this. They have said that it is not a smooth-bore...I think the popular speculation is that they've redesigned the operating mechanism so that the barrel extends 4" into the upper receiver along with the 11.5" external length and a permanently attached flash hider. The upper seems to have a larger block for the cam pin to operate.


BATFE has traditionally measured the length of the bbl as being from the face of the bolt (when bolt is in-battery) to the muzzle end of the bbl, or muzzle device (if that device is perm attached). So sticking 4" of bbl rearward past the bolt fact won't help them get 4 more inches on the "bbl."

Rogue's suggestion seems more likely. A quick search for "trigger pull" did not show any case law with regard to binary triggers. But if it's not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, would that make it an AOW ($5 to transfer)?
 
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quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
But if it's not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, would that make it an AOW ($5 to transfer)?


An AOW has to be "capable of being concealed on the person".

I suspect that this rifle is just over 26" in overall length with the stock extended, and therefore not legally considered "concealable". (Same reason that the non-NFA short shotguns like the Shockwave and Tac-14 aren't AOWs since they're 26.5" in OAL, or that AR pistols with vertical foregrips aren't AOWs as long as they're 26"+ in OAL.)
 
Posts: 19577 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
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Didn't triggerless sub machine guns get slapped down rather quickly? I couldn't see the same FCG terminology loophole being used again.
 
Posts: 7811 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by LDD:

BATFE has traditionally measured the length of the bbl as being from the face of the bolt (when bolt is in-battery) to the muzzle end of the bbl, or muzzle device (if that device is perm attached). So sticking 4" of bbl rearward past the bolt fact won't help them get 4 more inches on the "bbl."

Rogue's suggestion seems more likely. A quick search for "trigger pull" did not show any case law with regard to binary triggers. But if it's not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, would that make it an AOW ($5 to transfer)?


Rogue has a good point, however, why would they have the additional blocking on the upper? I was thinking they are using a completely new BCG that is shorter - putting the breech face 4" deeper inside the upper. Of course, that means you'd have to pull the round off the back of the magazine (ala the Boberg XR9). The rifle is pictured with what appears to be a PMAG so... who knows. That seems overly complicated, but simply building it with a binary trigger seems too easy.

If they pull it off with just the Binary trigger - that is pretty cool. Either way, color me interested!


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Posts: 208 | Registered: June 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not that I'm too overly critical, but it struck me as odd that used that rail on the brand new gun that would be getting tons of press.

That looks like the Parallax FFSSR, which is several years old and isn't "latest and greatest" super-slim MLOK or whatever.

I have a 15" one on my 9mm AR and love it, but I bought it as a blem like 3 years ago for $50 when Parallax was blowing them out.



Love the momentum NFA-"workaround" guns are getting. Truly some cool stuff, despite being slightly neutered to achieve the workaround.

I'm more interested in the precedent - If the binary trigger bit is true, would a standard stripped lower built with a binary qualify, or would "readily modified" part of the definition of a rifle negate that as it can take any AR trigger? If Franklin armory just used a slightly different pin arrangement, or required a modification to the lower that would otherwise not allow an AR trigger to function it might be valid.

Fun stuff lies ahead, until the Fun Police decide to change their minds.
 
Posts: 5403 | Location: Romeo, MI | Registered: January 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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(Joking)

Since federal law states the projectile must be accelerated by an explosive charge down a rifled barrel than obviously this must be a directed energy weapon and the Pmag stores a replaceable power source. Maybe a plasma weapon? Perhaps we will finally get the pulse rifle in the 40 watt range? Although, I read once that 40 watts really isn’t all that impressive.
 
Posts: 113 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: July 08, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Would it be possible for the bolt to extend into the stock with a shortened buffer?
 
Posts: 517 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: March 21, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Interesting.
 
Posts: 12909 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Could it be that the barrel is not rifled, but may have a different way to stabilize the bullet? I have seen his add all over the internet, and it talks about, it not being a rifle, not an SBR, or a shotgun.
 
Posts: 465 | Location: Wish I was in Indy | Registered: June 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Doesn't do us around here any good, green lighted faux SBR or otherwise. Binary triggers are verboten in WA state.
 
Posts: 7860 | Location: Drippin' wet | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RespectTheAmish:
Could it be that the barrel is not rifled, but may have a different way to stabilize the bullet?


One theory is a smooth barrel with a rifled muzzle device.

That additional blocking on the upper looks like bad photoshop to me. Big Grin


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A rifled barreled .410ga




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Posts: 5658 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
But if it's not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, would that make it an AOW ($5 to transfer)?


An AOW has to be "capable of being concealed on the person".

I suspect that this rifle is just over 26" in overall length with the stock extended, and therefore not legally considered "concealable". (Same reason that the non-NFA short shotguns like the Shockwave and Tac-14 aren't AOWs since they're 26.5" in OAL, or that AR pistols with vertical foregrips aren't AOWs as long as they're 26"+ in OAL.)


This is my guess its 26.5 inches long with the stock closed.
 
Posts: 563 | Location: PHILADELPHIA,PA,USA | Registered: October 24, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
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Obviously, they already have the ATF's blessing (aka, the Letter). Will be interesting to see the explanation.


Q


 
Posts: 14206 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Armed and Gregarious
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
I think it has to do with the Binary Trigger, which is so prominently highlighted in red in the promo photos.

A rifle is defined as "a weapon intended to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

A "machine gun" is defined as "any weapon which shoots automatically more than one shot by a single function of the trigger".

A binary trigger fires one round when the trigger is depressed and one round when the trigger is released. Seems like that could be considered two shots per single "pull" of the trigger, but only one shot per single "function" of the trigger (with depressing and releasing considered separate "functions").

Therefore, if it's built from the get-go with a binary trigger (rather than a rifle that's has had a binary trigger installed later) it doesn't seem to fit either of the bolded portions of the definitions. And if it's not a rifle and not a machine gun, it's simply a "firearm".

That's my semi-educated guess.
The only problem with your theory is those "binary triggers" have a "semi" position. Which means it still functions like a "rifle," even if trying to take advantage of the wording differences of the two statutes.


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Posts: 11932 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Perhaps. But many machine guns have a "semi" setting as well, and that doesn't make them "rifles".
 
Posts: 19577 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would like to see the action's internals. The rear of the barrel may be extended rearward and has a shuttle type action to insert the ammo into the barrel's breech.


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Posts: 1755 | Location: Austin Texas USA | Registered: February 03, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've read several articles and hundreds of forum posts on this thing. I am certain of one thing: Franklin Armory has succeeded in generating publicity for their company.

I'm just going to wait for SHOT.
 
Posts: 2144 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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