I've pretty much given up on trying to get a SCAR 17, so have been looking around at other options.

It's pretty much come down to these two.

From a financial standpoint, certainly the RRA wins at half the cost, but that's not too big of a concern for me. If I'm paying for quality and sub-MOA accuracy I'm OK with it.

Anyone own either or both and have any advice?

Even though Mark LaRue is a douche, I don’t think Rock River and LaRue products are remotely in the same league.

how about a POF P308 or Revolution 308?

quote:

Originally posted by DSgrouse:
how about a POF P308 or Revolution 308?

I don't care for the hand guard. Might be able to change that and I'll look into it.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Even though Mark LaRue is a douche, I don’t think Rock River and LaRue products are remotely in the same league.

Would you go for good enough or top notch?

I'll freely admit that I'm not a precision shooter at distance, but I'd like to know that my rifle is capable of it should the need arise.

Did you consider the JP LRP-07™ Long Range Precision Rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by DSgrouse:
how about a POF P308 or Revolution 308?

I don't care for the hand guard. Might be able to change that and I'll look into it.

Gotcha, I did like the hand gaurd. Just a touch of rail but mostly rounded. The JP LRP -07 is a great option also.

Check out the LWRC REPR or M1A. Several barrel lengths and options on both. As mentioned JP makes a great product. What will the rifle be used for.

People have mixed opinions on Mark Larue, however the OBR really is top notch. If between those two only the OBR would get my money. Even compared to the SR25 the OBR wins hands down.

With that said, theres other middle of the ground companies out there between them.

I would steer away from Rock River as everytime I dealt with them (when doing gunsmithing fulltime) it was always a shit show. Their customer service just plain sucked. And they fucked up really simple things too and ober did it on others (like when they used red loctite on a barrel nut and torqued it on so hard I used a three foot cheater bar and took two of us, which was preceeded by a night of kroil and a torch to get things warmed up). In their eyes that was normal and perfectly acceptable.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
...so have been looking around at other options.

Since cost doesn't seem to be a primary factor, you should consider your primary and secondary wants from the rifle. Are you looking for accuracy, cycling reliability, ability to shoot crappy ammo, light weight, SBR capabilities, or something else. There are many rifle brands and models that will meet many of the potential priorities. Very few people will have experience with a wide variety of AR-10s.

Higher end AR-10s include:
- LaRue OBR
- JP
- GAP 10
- KAC SR25
- Falkor Defense
- Wilson Combat
- LWRC
- Daniel Defense
- Black Rain
- DPMS SASS
- POF
- maybe Colt & PWS
- maybe Rock River
- probably some others
I won't list value-line AR-10s.

If it's true precision you want, GAP is almost certainly at the top. Just a gnat's curly one behind include JP, Larue, KAC, Wilson, Falkor. The rest all have respectable, if not great, accuracy.

All brands should exhibit great reliability. Although I wouldn't subject the GAP or JP to crappy ammo, and I'd both of them clean and well lubed.

I haven't shot a Rock River AR-10, but I own an AR-15 with a matched RR receiver set and a RR BCG. The rifle has never failed to cycle, even in some rough conditions. It's pretty darn accurate, but I think it is ultimately limited by its DSC (DoubleStar) barrel. Likely barrel replacement is a Krieger, once I shoot out the DSC. I replaced the rifle's RR trigger with a Wilson, and now it's a really pleasurable fun rifle to shoot. Understand this is rifle plumbed by a really good 'smith, and thus is not a true RR.

IMO the LaRue is a tremendously accurate AR-10, built just loose enough to handle poor ammo, poor cleaning, and inadequate lube. GAP and JP are more accurate, but they are more finicky about cleaning and lubing. I've seen JP rifles be picky about ammo. Personally I think JP cuts their chambers a little too tightly.

I have a Black Rain based AR-10. BRO parts are upper & lower receivers, BCG, rail. It wears a Krieger barrel, Wilson trigger and PRS stock. Not as accurate as a GAP, but not far behind.

I have an AR-15 with SI Defense upper & lower receivers. With a Krieger barrel, Wilson BCG, Wilson trigger, PRS stock -- it's my most accurate AR-15. SI Defense is now call Falkor Defense. Falkor's AR-10s are high quality rifles.

I have two AR-15s from Wilson Combat. I cannot recommend the brand highly enough.

Consider your caliber. With the rifles listed above, you have options beyond 308. Win 308 is a good all-around caliber, but it is getting long in the tooth for certain applications. Understand your options.

Stay with the top brands listed above and you have a rifle that you can shoot the crap out of during you life. Replace a barrel here and there, maybe a bolt now and then, and pass the rifle down to your heirs. I recommend taking your time researching options, and then actually getting out and shooting as many different AR-10 brands as you can.

Thanks for the rundown fritz. I appreciate it. Lots to think about re: brands, but not caliber.

To be honest, I've done all of my hunting for probably the past ten years with my .257 Wby. I've killed everything from coyotes to elk with it and have no reservations about shooting anything in the lower 48 with that rifle and dumping them where they stand. It's proven itself over and over again. It's the most comfortable and most accurate rifle I've ever shot, and it packs a wallop.

However...I want a larger caliber semiautomatic as well, just because, and .308 will fit all of my potential needs perfectly. It's a good proven caliber and with the right rifle will be just right for me. As I said, I don't consider myself a sniper quality marksman, but I want my rifles to be.

Because of that, I've been leaning towards the LaRue, but I've got a buddy who recently picked up the RRA and just swears by it (and he's a former SEAL and fellow gun nut for what that's worth). Apparently the RRA is guaranteed sub-MOA. Not sure about that though.

I'll take another look through the other options. Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Thanks for the rundown fritz. I appreciate it. Lots to think about re: brands, but not caliber.

To be honest, I've done all of my hunting for probably the past ten years with my .257 Wby. I've killed everything from coyotes to elk with it and have no reservations about shooting anything in the lower 48 with that rifle and dumping them where they stand. It's proven itself over and over again. It's the most comfortable and most accurate rifle I've ever shot, and it packs a wallop.

However...I want a larger caliber semiautomatic as well, just because, and .308 will fit all of my potential needs perfectly. It's a good proven caliber and with the right rifle will be just right for me. As I said, I don't consider myself a sniper quality marksman, but I want my rifles to be.

Because of that, I've been leaning towards the LaRue, but I've got a buddy who recently picked up the RRA and just swears by it (and he's a former SEAL and fellow gun nut for what that's worth). Apparently the RRA is guaranteed sub-MOA. Not sure about that though.

I'll take another look through the other options. Thanks again.

Just a quick note on gaurantees, they cover the rifle, not the shooter. Most modern guns are not the limiting factor in this.

Sounds like you are going at this for the same reasons i did. In my case i have a awesome pof ar15. So, i chose to stick with pof and picked up my p308.

Having seen a jp my purchase, it would have been my pick.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I've pretty much given up on trying to get a SCAR 17, so have been looking around at other options.

It's pretty much come down to these two.

From a financial standpoint, certainly the RRA wins at half the cost, but that's not too big of a concern for me. If I'm paying for quality and sub-MOA accuracy I'm OK with it.

Anyone own either or both and have any advice?

I have an LAR 8 the only con is magazines. It does not use the ubiquitous Magpul P25s. I have scrounged plenty of mags for it at decent prices but that is something to be aware of. If you crave accuracy go elsewhere, after all it is a battle rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Even though Mark LaRue is a douche, I don’t think Rock River and LaRue products are remotely in the same league.

I agree with the above. The OBR is a great rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I want a larger caliber semiautomatic as well

Do you understand that although 308 is a larger bore than 257, but the Win 308 produces less muzzle energy than the 257? Larger and heavier bullet, but way slower MV. Move up to a 338 Federal (Wilson Combat makes them) and at least you have the same ME as the 257.

Your statement implies you're looking for a hunting rifle. The Larue would do that, but there may be other options that do it better. The OBR is certainly heavier than some of the other AR-10s, and less weight in the field is often an important factor of rifle selection.

As for accuracy "guarantees", as DSgrouse states, field accuracy for a semi-auto 308 is as much on the shooter as it is on the rifle. A lot of people can't shoot an AR-15 anywhere near its accuracy potential -- it's even worse with a 308. More powder, heavier bullet, a big-assed BCG chunking back and forth, maybe 4-5 times as much recoil energy in foot-pounds. The fundamentals of marksmanship are critical. If the shooter can't keep the scope's retical on the target all the way through the fire-and-recoil cycle, accuracy will suffer on an AR-10. Regardless of whether the AR-10 is a GAP or a $500 webz special.

Between the two you listed, I would go LaRue no doubt about it.


Definitely consider JP as well. The LRP-07 was used by Tyler Payne of the AMU to win the PRS Gas Gun series last year.

The rest of the info Fritz provided you is definitely spot on.

If you don't already have a lot of ammunition bought, don't discount either the 260 Remington or the 6.5 Creedmoor either. Both will handle the same kind of game as the 308. Both have supplanted the 308 for the long range games in both gas guns and bolt actions.

It is worth the time to do some research. Don't just go 308 because 308 WAS ubiquitous. It is decidedly less so among the precision rifle crowd nowadays. And if you are content to pay for sub-moa accuracy there is a wide assortment of match grade ammo especially for the Creedmoor and the 260. 308 as well of course.

I’ve got two RRA rifles including an Operator. Granted, they are in 5.56 but I’ve never had a hiccup. They’ve been very accurate and reliable for me. Never had a need for warranty service

I’m happy.

YMMV.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I want a larger caliber semiautomatic as well

Do you understand that although 308 is a larger bore than 257, but the Win 308 produces less muzzle energy than the 257?

Yes, I do.

The quoted sentence could easily be misunderstood. I don't mean larger than .257, just larger. I probably should have just said large.

But yeah, not even comparable energy.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
...so have been looking around at other options.

Higher end AR-10s include:
- LaRue OBR
- JP
- GAP 10
- KAC SR25
- Falkor Defense
- Wilson Combat
- LWRC
- Daniel Defense
- Black Rain
- DPMS SASS
- POF
- maybe Colt & PWS
- maybe Rock River
- probably some others

The LMT MWS definitely belongs on that list. I would rank it in the top 5 for sure....