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caliber debate 6.5 Swede or 8mm Mauser Login/Join 
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I shoot 8mm for cast bullet competitions. So hardly any recoil there. I find it an accurate cartridge. The 6.5 Swede is an all around great cartridge for accuracy and easy on recoil even w/ full power loads. Amazing what was old is new again.

I have been thinking about re-barreling one of my Garands in 6.5 Swede. Who needs a 6.5 Creedmoor then.
 
Posts: 4024 | Registered: January 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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quote:
Originally posted by 357fuzz:
if you want some 8mm love shoot some of the Austrian Nazi marked 8x56R in a M95 straight pull carbine.


Yep, surplus Austrian and Bulgarian 8x56R is noticeably stout, and that's further magnified in the light M95/30 carbines.

New production Prvi 8x56R through a M95 rifle isn't as bad.
 
Posts: 32429 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Experienced Slacker
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Sorry to drift, but a couple things I'm compelled to mention now:

Get a recoil pad if shooting hurts that damn bad. This shit is supposed to be fun and there's no good reason it shouldn't be.
Next, regarding soldiers shooting less due to recoil that might have merit in some cases. I'm thinking of hot weather fights wearing only thin utilities. Bundled for the eastern front etc. You could probably shoot African hunting rifles all day...legit pachyderm stoppers.
 
Posts: 7486 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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If you think a Mauser in 8x57mm is rough, you might be interested in another noticeable 8mm thumper: Swedish 8x63mm.

It was designed for MG use for anti-aircraft, anti-vehicle, and long-range "beaten zone" indirect fire.

But the Swedes decided that rather than issuing two different types of ammo to their MG crews, they'd just give them Mauser rifles chambered in 8x63 too, and proceeded to order a few thousand K98ks from Germany in 8x63mm.

 
Posts: 32429 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by RogueJSK:
If you think a Mauser in 8x57mm is rough, you might be interested in another noticeable 8mm thumper: Swedish 8x63mm.

It was designed for MG use for anti-aircraft, anti-vehicle, and long-range "beaten zone" indirect fire.

But the Swedes decided that rather than issuing two different types of ammo to their MG crews, they'd just give them Mauser rifles chambered in 8x63 too, and proceeded to order a few thousand K98ks from Germany in 8x63mm.



I like that muzzle device. Should try to get one for my K98. 8x63mm.... hmmmmm... sounds very close to a very common 7.62x63mm.
 
Posts: 4024 | Registered: January 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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They had to add the muzzle brake to tame the recoil. (You won't be able to find an original Swedish m/40 rifle or muzzle brake as they're exceedingly rare - less than 20 known examples of the m/40 rifle remain - nor would it work on your K98k without modification, but if you really want a brake there are some clamp-on K98k muzzle brakes available out there on the commercial market.)

8x63mm is stouter than 7.62x63mm/.30-06, but was designed to be close to .30-06 in dimensions, in order to function in their Browning M1917 and M1919 MGs without significant receiver modifications. They were basically going for the biggest/heaviest bullet that the Brownings could easily accomodate.

They also designed a new recoil-absorbing buffer system for the MG mounts to counteract the extra recoil with the MGs, but no such luck for the poor rifle shooters. Big Grin

8x63mm had a 219 grain bullet going ~2500 fps, whereas .30-06 of the time had a 150 grain bullet going ~2700 fps, giving 8x63 around 25% greater energy.
 
Posts: 32429 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am not going to ruin a nice K98k by putting on some cheesy modern or faux muzzle brake. The original or a copy there-of would do nicely to make a repro/copy of a Swede M/40.

I see Sarco has Browning MG barrel blanks for that caliber. I should get one and put in my semi auto M1919A6.... nope. Must resist...

Closest thing, I think, to that round that is military 30-06 would be a 172 grain match round.
 
Posts: 4024 | Registered: January 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It depends upon my intended use. The 6.5 is a dandy round, but if I were hunting anything larger than medium sized deer, I'd go with the 8mm. I'm sure a number of European stags have been killed with the 6.5, but I prefer larger bullets on bigger game.
 
Posts: 934 | Location: WV | Registered: May 30, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
half-genius,
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quote:
Originally posted by jaybirdaccountant:
It depends upon my intended use. The 6.5 is a dandy round, but if I were hunting anything larger than medium sized deer, I'd go with the 8mm. I'm sure a number of European stags have been killed with the 6.5, but I prefer larger bullets on bigger game.


It has often been noted here and on other fora, not only by me, but many other far-better qualified shooters, that the Scandinavian Elk - the so-called European Moose, is substantially larger than anything in North America, apart from your moose. They have been taken by the million since 1896 by the 6.5x55 Swdish Mauser cartridge.
 
Posts: 11305 | Location: UK, OR, ONT | Registered: July 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Made from a
different mold
Picture of mutedblade
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quote:
Originally posted by tacfoley:
They have been taken by the million since 1896 by the 6.5x55 Swdish Mauser cartridge.


Truth. It hits hard and penetrates deep. The quality of bullets gets better and believe me when I say there is nothing on this continent that would survive a well placed shot. Short of a charging rhino, hippo, or elephant; I’d say it would be effective on most African animals too. My first choice for Africa? Certainly not, but I’d be happy to take one to hunt some of their game animals.


___________________________
No thanks, I've already got a penguin.
 
Posts: 2824 | Location: Lake Anna, VA | Registered: May 07, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmo952:
When we think of WW1 or WW2 soldiers carrying and shooting these things ....


That’s an interesting point that relates to something LTC Dave Grossman discussed in his book On Combat (could have been in On Killing, but I believe it was the former). He went on at length about studies that supposedly determined the percentages of US soldiers who fired their rifles in combat in World War II and Vietnam.

According to his information, a far higher percentage of soldiers fired their rifles in Vietnam than in WWII. His rather shaky (IMO) conclusion was that the difference was because marksmanship training for soldiers in the big war was on traditional bull’s-eye type targets whereas later more realistic silhouette targets were the norm. He believed that soldiers in the Vietnam era had been conditioned to overcome their reluctance to shoot human beings by their exposure to those green bottle shapes.

That conclusion has always seemed highly spurious to me, but I have wondered that if his information about percentages of shooters in the two wars was correct, what the actual reason was. I would be willing to bet that different common combat conditions might have had something to do with the varying percentages, but now that you mention the recoil issue, I wonder if that could have affected some soldiers’ willingness to shoot their rifles when it wasn’t an immediate matter of life or death.

Thanks for that thought.
(I’m not, BTW, necessarily wedded to that idea, but books I’ve been reading recently have mentioned how rushed training got for US soldiers during WWII. It was to the point that reportedly some were sent to the European theater without having even fired their rifles before they got there.)


I think I read most of the killing in WW2 was by artillery and then machine guns. The rifle played a supporting role.

All those howitzers and motars did the real killing once an enemies location was fixed.

You raise an interesting theory though. The nature of the Garand or a 1903 Springfield did not lend itself to putting down a hose of fire in the general direction of the enemy.

The adoption of the M16 perhaps made that tactic easier and more prevalent. Interesting theory.
 
Posts: 462 | Location: Illinois | Registered: June 13, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have 7 Swedish Mausers, standard 6.5x55, one I am most proud of is a 1900 vintage, made by Mauser Obendorf, and it has a two digit serial number with all serial numbered parts matching. I also have one Turkish Mauser in 8x57. Compared to the Swedes it is brutal. Honestly for about 99% of North American game the 6.5 is fine. Plenty of small lightweight bullets for the reloader give a nice varmint rifle, and some of those long 160-170 grain soft nose perform beyond belief. My first centerfire was a Win 70 featherweight in 30-06 an I have often wished that it had been chambered for the 6.5 Swede.
 
Posts: 45 | Registered: May 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by Jimmo952:
I think I read most of the killing in WW2 was by artillery and then machine guns. The rifle played a supporting role.


No question about that.
Many gun owners are understandably fixated on the rifles, but artillery was the real killer on the battlefield.




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47365 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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