As I've become fairly comfortable with my handgun lineup, the only things I don't have a redundant item for are my shotgun, and my AR. Shotgun's not as big a deal and I've already got an idea of what I want to do for a second one. The second AR is where I'll need some pointers, given I've been out of the game a bit.

My first AR I went reasonably high-end. Billet lower, BCM upper, and some goot parts along the way.

This one, I'm thinking of a budget old-school A2/A4 styled build since I can't really find anything factory that I like. I'm mostly thinking 20" HBAR, fixed rifle stock, detachable handle on a flat top upper, fixed front sight and rounded handguard. I'll upgrade things like the grip, trigger, maybe selector, but I want to keep outward appearances relatively old school.

Any suggestions on affordable complete uppers that satisfy the above? I'm going to start with a stripped lower and parts, and then when some extra fun money comes through is when I'll buy the upper.

I don't really have a budget in mind, but I do want to keep it as low as I can without sacrificing too much quality. PSA has a complete rifle kit with what I want for $399 but I'm not looking to plunk that amount of change down at the moment.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jcat,

I want to do the same. PSA at 399 will be at least 200 less than piecemeal.

quote:

Originally posted by billnchristy:
I want to do the same. PSA at 399 will be at least 200 less than piecemeal.

I know, I just wish I had the 4 hundo to plunk down all in one shot.

I figure I can get the lower completed for about $175 ($50 lower, $85 stock kit, $40 in lower parts), DSA has a complete upper minus BCG and CH (Have a spare BCM BCG anyway) for $299, so that all together is only $475. If I went the PSA route I'd only save about $30 ($399 kit plus $50 lower, $449).

No idea how DSA's AR stuff is though. I think I'm basically looking to go along the lines of the Colt 6700 or RRA LAR Std A4 but for about half the cost haha

If you want to go old school, in my humble opinion the A1 is a nicer shooting configuration than the A2.

A2 barrel is heavy, stock is too long.

Although A1 parts are getting a bit harder to find.....


Relevant pic

^^Indianaboy, that's a nice looking rifle. I may be talking out of my ass regarding A1/A2/A4 etc. because I don't know the older configurations very well. I don't need the HBAR but I do like how it looks. Maybe lightweight would be the way with a 20".

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
If you want to go old school, in my humble opinion the A1 is a nicer shooting configuration than the A2.

A2 barrel is heavy, stock is too long.

Although A1 parts are getting a bit harder to find.....


Relevant pic

I don't find the A2 too heavy, but I am used to shooting a Match gun for High Power comps,

I do find the stock too long for me, I use A1 length stocks

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
^^Indianaboy, that's a nice looking rifle. I may be talking out of my ass regarding A1/A2/A4 etc. because I don't know the older configurations very well. I don't need the HBAR but I do like how it looks. Maybe lightweight would be the way with a 20".

M16A1 actually weighs less with it's 20 inch barrel than an M4 with 14.5.

M16A2 weighs almost 1.5 lbs more and the bulk of that is in the barrel.


I'm a smaller guy and the A2 stock always felt wrong to me. Too long which made the heavier barrel feel even more awkward.


But one of my favorite rifles now is a 16" that I shoot with a silencer attached. It is significantly heavier than an A2, and I deal with it.

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

I don't find the A2 too heavy, but I am used to shooting a Match gun for High Power comps,

I do find the stock too long for me, I use A1 length stocks

You High Power guys are crazy. What with lead weights inside your handguards and whatnot.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
^^Indianaboy, that's a nice looking rifle. I may be talking out of my ass regarding A1/A2/A4 etc. because I don't know the older configurations very well. I don't need the HBAR but I do like how it looks. Maybe lightweight would be the way with a 20".

M16A1 actually weighs less with it's 20 inch barrel than an M4 with 14.5.

M16A2 weighs almost 1.5 lbs more and the bulk of that is in the barrel.


I'm a smaller guy and the A2 stock always felt wrong to me. Too long which made the heavier barrel feel even more awkward.


But one of my favorite rifles now is a 16" that I shoot with a silencer attached. It is significantly heavier than an A2, and I deal with it.

See I'm 6'2" with pretty long arms. What is the actual LOP difference (call it from the castle nut to the end of the stock) between the two?

I've got an MFT minimalist on my midlength, and I find I have to pull it all the way out for it to work for me.

I should say the days of the budget A1 build are probably over.

There were A1 kits for sale EVERYWHERE a few years ago, and cheap.


Not a lot of guys wanted them because you had to have someone who was able to fit a predrilled FSB to a new barrel.

I sent mine to John Thomas at RetroArmsWorks. His work is stellar.


The retro bug bit a lot of people though and those kits have almost all been snapped up.

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:


See I'm 6'2" with pretty long arms. What is the actual LOP difference (call it from the castle nut to the end of the stock) between the two?

I've got an MFT minimalist on my midlength, and I find I have to pull it all the way out for it to work for me.

LOP difference is 5/8.

I know that sounds like nothing but for me it makes a big difference.

PSA has the Blem MOE+ w/ enhanced polished trigger for $159 incl. shipping. It is hard to beat that because of the upgrades included. Work on the upper and you can change out anything in the lower later and have some decent items for trade.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

I don't find the A2 too heavy, but I am used to shooting a Match gun for High Power comps,

I do find the stock too long for me, I use A1 length stocks

You High Power guys are crazy. What with lead weights inside your handguards and whatnot.

MY NM AR-15 also has a 3 pound lead weight in the buttstock, along with the lead in the handguards. At least I didn't get a magazine with lead under the 10 round mark.

Besides looking a certain way, is there something you want the rifle to do / role to play?

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Besides looking a certain way, is there something you want the rifle to do / role to play?

You know, your post caused me to try and define its role, and I realized I had nothing. With that said, I'll take suggestions to that end also.

My current rifle is a 16" BCM BFH mid length complete upper with MI key mod hand guard on a black rain billet lower, cmmg builder kit small parts with an moe+ grip, noveske 60 degree selector, and ALG ACT trigger. MFT minimalist stock, BCM small VFG, inforce WMLx, Eotech 512, YHM offset flip out buis. It's my main plinking/HD/SHTF rifle.

First and foremost is the 'two is one...' concept. I have one, and could pick up some spare parts, but why not have a secondary complete rifle that I could pilfer if need be (I plan on adding spares for both of course). Beyond that, with my other being tricked out I would like to have a fairly basic backup rifle, either to toss to a friend/family member during the zombie apocalypse, introduce a new rifle shooter, or as a backup if the first ever goes tits up during a carbine class. In support of those reasons I'm sticking with 5.56 chambering so I can share mags and not have to invest in a new caliber. I've thought about a 9mm glock pattern AR but that can wait as I think parity in my main AR is more important.

I don't plan on shooting terribly long range. The longest in RI is a whopping 300 yards. I haven't decided if this one will get glass or not, which is why I was thinking of sticking with a fixed FSB and either a handle or stationary rear iron.

I was leaning old school/back to basics mostly because I think the look is cool, but I guess there's no reason I couldn't be just as well off with another 16" gun.

Unfortunately no sbr nor suppressors in RI so that's playing no part in this decision, other than I don't want a 14.5" p&w in the event cans become legal and I need to swap muzzle devices.

Another thought I've had...is there any reason to not build a 5.56 pistol w/ brace? Say 10.5" barrel.

The HBAR barrel might be too heavy for your tastes. I have an old bushmaster HBAR (my first AR purchased in 2001) and there is no point to having the HBAR IMO unless all you plan to do with it is prone or seated shooting. I just keep it aside for spare parts, or whatever other unforeseen use it might serve.

You will probably be best served with an A2 Government profile barrel.

It isn't cheap, but good quality ---> Consider a BCM 20" A4 complete upper receiver and put it on a lower build of your choice. You can order it without the hand guard. Magpul makes a 20" MLOK hand guard (~$30) that will work well. You can mount a light and sling swivels in good practical places with the MLOK, which will really make the rifle bare-bones but quite useful. This is a combo that you really can't go wrong with, especially because you seem to want a general purpose rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by awa762:
The HBAR barrel might be too heavy for your tastes. I have an old bushmaster HBAR (my first AR purchased in 2001) and there is no point to having the HBAR IMO unless all you plan to do with it is prone or seated shooting. I just keep it aside for spare parts, or whatever other unforeseen use it might serve.

You will probably be best served with an A2 Government profile barrel.

It isn't cheap, but good quality ---> Consider a BCM 20" A4 complete upper receiver and put it on a lower build of your choice. You can order it without the hand guard. Magpul makes a 20" MLOK hand guard (~$30) that will work well. You can mount a light and sling swivels in good practical places with the MLOK, which will really make the rifle bare-bones but quite useful. This is a combo that you really can't go wrong with, especially because you seem to want a general purpose rifle.

I saw that 20" furniture-less upper the other day. I like BCM's stuff, have it on my current rifle, and truth be told it's not THAT much more expensive than the other options I've been looking at, upper-wise. I think I'd go keymod rather than M-lok though, just for some commonality in being easily able to swap things around.

Rhino's question got me wondering as to whether there's any point in a 20" barrel for my purposes.

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Another thought I've had...is there any reason to not build a 5.56 pistol w/ brace? Say 10.5" barrel.

I wouldn't go that short without a silencer. Just me personally.

Not much lighter than a 16" pencil barrel and a ton of noise and blast.

Do a BCM 20" gov profile barrel and standard handguard and detachable carry handle. I built my dad one of these A4(ish) clones and it is an entirely different experience to shoot compared to a carbine, I love it. Very accurate out to 300 yards with the peep sights.