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I live in a suburban AO. As such, I'm converting one of my ARs (DelTon Evolution. It has the best trigger.) into my version of a Special Purpose Rifle. I would much prefer a 1/7"-1/8" barrel, but for now, I'm stuck with the OEM 1/9" barrel. Having said that, what bullets do you suggest? I'm thinking 62-64gr bullets. In my AO, max range is 350-400m. TIA


I was paid $7.54/HR to go into harm's way so you didn't have to.
 
Posts: 598 | Location: Heart of Dixie! | Registered: April 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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The first question back will always be What (targets) do you intend or anticipate shooting? Second is what is your barrel length? (I don’t know what you mean by “special purpose” rifle.)

In my experience 1/9" rifling twist will be fine with 62/64 grain bullets, especially in warm, humid air (or at high altitudes like where I am).




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 40101 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I also plan to hunt with it on my farm. Targets will be 'soft-skinned', in the 90-250#-range (deer, feral hogs, etc). SPR (Special Purpose Rifle) is similar to a DMR (Designated Marksman Rifle). Currently, I'm looking at the Federal load utilizing Nosler 60gr Partition bullets.


I was paid $7.54/HR to go into harm's way so you didn't have to.
 
Posts: 598 | Location: Heart of Dixie! | Registered: April 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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All right. Learning all the time (although I had vague suspicion that’s what you were referring to).

For your purposes I would think you’d want good penetration and Nosler Partition bullets have long had a good reputation for that. In my experiments Speer Gold Dot bullets also penetrate very well and they are available in 62/64 grains. Although they might be too heavy (too long, actually) for 1/9" you might try a box of the 75 grain Gold Dots to see how they do for you as well.




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 40101 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thnx. Many moons ago I loaded Barnes' 64gr SPs for my first AR, a Gov't Model Colt, but it had a 1/7" barrel. They were about the heaviest available in 1990.


I was paid $7.54/HR to go into harm's way so you didn't have to.
 
Posts: 598 | Location: Heart of Dixie! | Registered: April 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My personal 'DMR' style rifle is a 20" 1/8. This has proven to be a real all around bullet laser. 50 gr to the 77's, it has been a good choice.

It's a 410 SS, fluted mid weight, mid length gas. This gas length had me concerned, after shooting some match loads, I was a happy shooter.
 
Posts: 1183 | Location: Montana | Registered: October 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A 1/9 twist barrel will reliably stabilize almost all bullets up to 69 grains. Some 1/9 barrels -- or maybe barrels labelled 1/9 -- will stabilize some bullets up to 77 grains under some conditions. Higher velocities from longer barrels helps to increase stability.

At 69 grains, the most accurate bullets will be HPBT designs, with Sierra Matchking as the primary example. But a HPBT match bullet may not be best for hunting application.

There are a few bonded-type bullets in the 62-64 grain ballpark. Like Nosler, Federal Fusion, Federal softpoints, Remington softpoints, Winchester softpoints, and probably a few others. Based on my experience, the Fusion and Nosler will be the most accurate.

Another option is the non-lead bullets, which are primarily copper alloys. Barnes is likely the leader here.
 
Posts: 6103 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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After looking at the Delton specs, I really wouldn't put this AR in the class of an SPR. As I understand it, an SPR tends to have an 18" heavy-profile stainless barrel, with a twist rate capable of shooting bullets of up to 77 grains.

The Delton has a chrome-lined 16" light-profile barrel, with slower twist rate. To me, that defines a carbine.
 
Posts: 6103 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I understand. It has a new barrel in its future, it just doesn't know it yet.


I was paid $7.54/HR to go into harm's way so you didn't have to.
 
Posts: 598 | Location: Heart of Dixie! | Registered: April 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Id look at the Federal Fusion MSR, shoots damn near as well as FGMM in some of my rifles and would work well on game. In fact, I usually grab a box of fusion for sighting in new rifles and use it as a baseline for what to expect from the rifle even though I'll likely handlaod.


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Posts: 7532 | Location: One step ahead of you | Registered: February 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What Fritz said....My SPR is an 18" White Oak Armament barrel with a 1:7 twist. It will shoot up to 77 grain (never tried an 80) comfortably and predictably. I have found however shooting some 55s that I will get a flyer from time to time though.
 
Posts: 328 | Registered: July 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There are no NIST or UL definitions and standards of what constitutes things like designated marksman or special purpose rifles. In my opinion what defines a rifle like that is what the user intends to do with it. We can point to useful features and characteristics, but ultimately what matters is performance.

To cite just a couple of examples from military and law enforcement sniping: One of the most successful snipers ever was the Finn Simo Häyhä who is believed have killed over 500 Russians. His “precision” weapon of choice was a stock-issued military rifle with iron sights. Who would have ever said to him, “Oh, that’s not a real sniper rifle”? The Remington model 700 is still the most common rifle used by US law enforcement snipers despite the availability of many others that are far better suited for the role (in my opinion, of course).

What matters for a role like what the OP described is whether he can deliver accurate fire with the gun and whether the terminal effects of the projectile accomplish what he desires. There may be things that would make his intended tasks easier and more certain, but there are few absolutes.




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 40101 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nope.

There is an SPR designation by the Navy -- the Mark 12, which has an 18" barrel.

I can call my 16" mid-length carbine an ELR rifle any time I want. I can slap an ELR sticker on its stock. I can boast that it shoots a bullet 2 miles or more. But it ain't no ELR rifle. There isn't any governmental alphabet agency which certifies ELR rifles. But we shooters know what ELR is, based on our generally accepted concepts, design parameters, and usage.

The OP has a 16" carbine -- which may (or may not) do exactly what the OP desires. But in its current configuration, it's not an SPR.
 
Posts: 6103 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by shooter1201:
...into my version of a Special Purpose Rifle.


Why anyone would take issue with this is beyond me.


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Now an FFL licensee, working on SIGs and other assorted firearms. My email is in my profile.
 
Posts: 8421 | Location: UT | Registered: December 05, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Don't get lost with BARForum rifle names / designations.

Build a rifle to do what you want it do to and let the Tactical Tommies argue about what it is or isn't.
 
Posts: 42998 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tactical Tommy here. If people want to designate their own firearms by their own names, so be it. It's possible that we might want to re-think the terms of SBR, carbine, SPR, DMR, service rifle, precision rifle, varmint rifle, and others.

Some of us spend a fair amount of trigger time with various ARs. I currently have 223 uppers with barrel lengths of 14.5", 16", 18", 20", and 24". I've shot out a 16" and a 18" barrel, and my 24" is getting a little long in the tooth. Regardless of whether it's competition, training, or simple plinking, I see a difference in how the various barrel lengths perform. Definitely not at 100 yards or less. Generally not at 200 yards -- although it can occur with low-BC bullets in high winds. But further out with our little 223 bullets, things happen.

Absolutely there are bullet flight differences among barrel lengths at the maximum distances of 350-400m that the op listed. Now maybe such differences are immaterial to the op and some other shooters, but I see differences. Regardless of barrel brand that I've used, my 18" barrel uppers place more hits on targets at 300-400 yards than my 16" barrel uppers do. But then again, I'm only taking about steel and paper targets of 1-3 MOA in size, while shooting in variable winds. FWIW, accuracy differences among my barrels at 100 yards or less are inconsequential. YMMV, as my shooting may not be applicable to others.
 
Posts: 6103 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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I have no issues with calling a spade a spade; I just dislike SPR / DMR /Recce Rifle terms because there is zero standard to what they are. Obviously generally a rifle more geared to precision, but what they are is all over the place - 18", 16", LPVO, High Mag optic, 556 v 308, etc, etc.

At least SBR and 'Service Rifle' have actual definitions - and a varmint rifle is pretty understood.

My point was the dude should just make his rifle his rifle for his needs.
 
Posts: 42998 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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