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556 vs 300blk vs pistol carbine for home defense Login/Join 
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posted
Any opinions on what would be best for home defense in a SBR (pistol) configuration?

Im concerned about over penetration but also want good terminal performance.

From what im seeing 556 tends to have some deviation after wall penetration. I really dont like not knowing what direction it can travel.

300blk subs seem to have similar performance to a 45 acp. If it over penetrated it tends to stay straight. Im concerned about round cost and availability. Are ballistics too close to pistol carbines?

9mm or 45 carbine something like a CZ Scorpion. Its seems like this could be the best of both. Ballistics, low cost and common availability.


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Posts: 4451 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA | Registered: February 27, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Expert308
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I'm seriously thinking a suppressed .45ACP SBR or braced pistol is what I want.
 
Posts: 6065 | Location: Portland, OR | Registered: February 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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1. I will always remember a comment by member jljones that we should not pick a cartridge based on which one is best to miss with. If, however, that is a primary consideration, I would choose a light 0.224 (223 Remington/5.56mm) bullet over anything commonly loaded in 300 Blackout because it would be much more likely to break up on building materials or stay in a human target.

2. The problems with 223/5.56 from a short pistol barrel are loss of ballistic effectiveness due to lower velocities and muzzle blast. The last might not be a serious issue, but it’s something to be aware of. The advantage of 300 BLK is that common supersonic loads produce about the same energy from a short 9-10 inch barrel as 223/5.56 does from 16". I have a SIG MCX with 9.5" barrel chambered for 300 Blackout for those reasons. I would never rely on subsonic 300 BLK loads for any serious purpose unless I were an “operator” trying to take out an enemy sentry as quietly as possible because they are just pistol cartridges being fired from a weapon that’s less convenient to use. Despite what some self-styled ballistics pundits would have us believe, projectile energy really does make a difference when it comes to neutralizing human threats.

3. If overpenetration and/or ballistic effectiveness were serious concerns, my last choice of the three options would be a pistol cartridge like 9mm, and especially 45 ACP.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
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Posts: 42581 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was initially leaning towards the 556 but after watching a few videos of the round being shot through drywall I had some concerns.

One test had several 2x2 drywall squares several feet apart to simulate walls. After the second wall the 556 barely nicked the third wall. You could really see how it deviated.

It seemed the 556 was the only round to change its flight path after impact. I dont know if its as much of a problem as I think it is.


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Posts: 4451 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA | Registered: February 27, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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300blk supersonic, Barnes 120gr TAC TX


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Posts: 7708 | Location: One step ahead of you | Registered: February 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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Most of the Box ‘o Truth style tests I’ve seen done, pistol rounds tended to penetrate through a surprising number of drywall layers, often much more than what a 5.56 does. Those little projectiles deviate because they’re dumping more energy faster. Pistol rounds that continue on their course penetrating multiple layers of drywall have more retained energy as they go through.

As for Jones’ line, I think a 5.56 is a better option than a pistol, both to score hits and miss with inside a house.
 
Posts: 12093 | Location: Seattle-ish | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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556 through a pistol with quality rounds (TAP, GD etc) will break up or lose effectiveness through wall board faster than pistol cals provided they all hit the same thing. I've seen a pistol bullet (HST 9mm 147) break up in two walls but it hit a metal bracket in doorway 1 which stopped it in wall 2 without exiting. With that said I lean and science backs up 556 will penetrate less and provide an order of magnitude better terminal effect.

I have a 300 blk pistol that I run 110 tap in that I like very much for a HD or strange times urban gun. The 110 gives up deep penetration for less wall penetration which is a trade off I'm willing to make for my purposes. I have some 300 Subs but they are similar to a pistol bullet. Cool to suppress and better than a pool noodle.I prefer the supers vs subs for my purposes.

In the house I have a Steyr Aug which is 10.5 AR sized without any bracing etc and the system runs well without beating itself up like a 10.5. Its nice and compact while still giving me 16" ballistics. If it was a few inches shorter I'm not sure I'd have gone with the 300 but my B&T fits in the backpack, the steyr is just a hair too long. Mind you, all of the above will work but I'd give most serious consideration to 556 or 300.

Currently I have a far larger stockpile of 556 which is something to think about as well.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Anubismp,
 
Posts: 2366 | Location: Pnw | Registered: March 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If overpenetration is a concern but you still wish to use a carbine, consider 556 frangible ammo.


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Posts: 12431 | Location: VIrtual | Registered: November 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by CQB60:
If overpenetration is a concern but you still wish to use a carbine, consider 556 frangible ammo.


Based on my own experiments, that is not what I would do.
A thread of possible interest about experiments with frangible bullets:

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums...910075274#6910075274




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 42581 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by CQB60:
If overpenetration is a concern but you still wish to use a carbine, consider 556 frangible ammo.


Based on my own experiments, that is not what I would do.
A thread of possible interest about experiments with frangible bullets:

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums...910075274#6910075274


Frangible is a no go. Its my understanding they are designed to fragment when striking a material harder than themselves.


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Posts: 4451 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA | Registered: February 27, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
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Everything goes thru walls.

The Mighty Mouse gun caliber of .22lr will go thru several walls.

I have both a 300 and a 5.56 AR.

I chose a 12gauge shotgun in my home defense situation. Most gunfights are over with one round of buckshot. I’ve seen people survive several rounds of 223, 7.62x39, 38, 357, 45, 22, 32, 380, 9 & 40. I’ve only ever seen one guy who survived a shotgun shooting...he was lucky the perp used birdshot...but even at point blank range it messed up the guy.

Plus DAs and juries can be squirrelly when someone presents them with, “well he fired x times”...because they have never been in a shooting situation.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

 
Posts: 7554 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Telecom Ronin
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I went with a 8.5" AR pistol in 300 blk, it wears a suppressor and is loaded with Hornady 190gr subs. Once I picked up dedicated mags for the 300blk it has ran fine and is movie quiet. Top it off with a H2 RDS....

My lovely wife likes it...win win

here is the ammo, saw a couple of tests showing these are most likely to expand at sub velocities.
https://www.hornady.com/ammuni...gr-sub-x-subsonic#!/


Remington 220gr subs share POI so cheaper range ammo is possible....well not at the moment mind you.

I wish I had picked up a couple hundred rounds last year when I built it.


A 11.5" SBR also resides in the bedroom loaded with either 55gr TTSX or 55gr gold dots.....not movie quiet Big Grin

Unless you are going to suppress the 5.56 pistol you really do not want to fire it indoors. I have a 7.5" pistol with a krink FS and it sucks at an outdoor range. Also many suppressors are not warrantied below 10.5".
 
Posts: 7788 | Location: WPA loving the weather..missing Texas | Registered: February 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
LIBERTATEM DEFENDIMUS
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I recently put my Tavor in .556 on duty for home defense. I am also giving serious consideration to getting a TS12 to compliment it. For home defense, I think a bullpup is an excellent choice. Compact length, can easily be shot one handed (though probably not true with the TS12) and reasonable barrel length to get good velocity from .556 ammo.
 
Posts: 5259 | Registered: October 18, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What about 10mm? I'm looking at pistol choices and trying to decide on something for a foldable stock pistol for 50 yards on in. Easy to put in a backpack or behind a truck seat.
 
Posts: 1192 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: June 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of steelcityfishanddive
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Just came across the CMMG Banshee in 10mm. That thing looks a good compromise between ammo cost/availability/effectiveness from75 yards in/damn fun to shoot.
 
Posts: 1192 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: June 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alienator
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I have a 300 blackout pistol with an 8.5" barrel that will take over home defense once I get a silencer built. Heavy and slow subsonic rounds should do fine balistically and you don't have to worry about ear pro and flash as much.


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Posts: 5812 | Location: NC | Registered: March 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
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Today, I would choose 223/5.56 simply due to logistics. If we were not in a gun panic and if riots were not imminent, I’d suggest 300.

Tony.


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-01 FFL
www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction).
e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com
 
Posts: 4018 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
Picture of Chowser
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Well, my car "gun" is a 6" 300blk pistol with Sandman-K suppressor. My bedside rifle is an 8" 300blk SBR with AAC 762SDN6 suppressor. In the safe collecting dust is my 10.5" 5.56SBR with Specwar suppressor. All loaded with Hornady TAP ammo (that's what we issue at work so I keep home stuff the same). Chief told me to order extra ammo this year and make sure everyone has enough for a loadout at their houses. Yes sir!

Buuuut...since I just bought my daughter a car for her 18th, my son wanted something special for his 14th (for his 13th he built a .458 Socom rifle). We ended up on a Slate CMMG 300 Banshee with Glock 9mm mags. Ordered the upper in the conversion setup (to use with PMAGS) for now and the rifle lower setup (love that rip stock) and will SBR it as soon as it gets to the dealer. But we can shoot it with my sbr'd lowers until then using the PMAGs. Haven't decided which 9mm suppressor to stick on the Banshee. We'll load him up with 147gr JHPs for home defense.

I have a SIG MPX pistol already but I just can't get used to it. I was waiting for PSA's MP5 clone since I love our old MP5 at work, but decided the Banshee has been around longer and is more AR specific since we're all used to it. (and we have tons of 9mm Glock mags already)



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 6746 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a 300 BK in a 16 inch AR and I have never shot a commercial round with it. Every round fired is a handload. My "House" load are loaded with a Nosler 125 grain Ballistic Tip bullet to 2300 FPS. While I have not ever fired these hand loads into any gelatin they have proven to produce sub 1 MOA accuracy. In addition according to Nosler's information on these bullets they are VERY effective hunting bullets.

I'll also note that the 300 BLK is a secondary house gun. My primary is a 12 gage 870 loaded with #1 Buckshot. Because IMO there is NOTHING more effective at close quarters than a good round of Buckshot.


I've stopped counting.
 
Posts: 4624 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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