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M1A SOCOM 16 vs Scout Squad Login/Join 
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Picture of redlickranch
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I love my Socom 16. I hit pretty good with the open sights up to 150 yards or so. My front night sight is dead so I painted the front sight white. I tried running optic, but without changing my stock it was a pain to have my cheek so high off the gun.

Shooting it a night is a blast... HUGE Fireballs.


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Posts: 687 | Location: Bluegrass State GO CARDS!!! | Registered: July 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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quote:
Originally posted by redlickranch:
I tried running optic, but without changing my stock it was a pain to have my cheek so high off the gun.


That's one of the many benefits of the Ultimak... It puts the optic on the same plane as the iron sights. So not only can you cowitness with the iron sights if needed, you also don't have to add a stock riser or adopt a chin weld to use the optic.

Ultimaks work on all standard barrel profile M14s/M1As, including SOCOMs. (They don't work with medium or heavy barrels, like on the SAI Match rifles.)



 
Posts: 23306 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was able to order my rifle today! After much research and thought, I was down to either the SOCOM or the new SA Saint Victor in 308. In the end, I much prefer the classic looks of the M1A over the AR platform. I also ordered an Archangel CQB stock and a couple 20 round mags. Can't wait for it to arrive!
 
Posts: 296 | Registered: February 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
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Good luck with your SOCOM. Handload for best results.


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-01 FFL
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Posts: 3334 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Huge fan of the socom, great platform despite all the hate for the M1A nowadays. Still need to get a walnut stock for mine.


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Posts: 200 | Registered: June 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
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If you decide to start hand loading for your SOCOM, I recently did some load testing with 168's. My SOCOM has a Criterion barrel, but still the same twist rate. My best group was with 41.5 grains of IMR-4064 under a 168 grain Nosler CC using LC cases and a 9-1/2 primer.

If you can target a velocity around 2410FPS, it seems to like that better than the full power loads coming in at 2475FPS.



Tony.


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-01 FFL
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Posts: 3334 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by benny6:
My best group was with 41.5 grains of IMR-4064 under a 168 grain Nosler CC using LC cases and a 9-1/2 primer.

Let me get this straight -- you're handling to obtain what is effectively a 2.75" group at 100 yards?
 
Posts: 6111 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
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Yup. There's a reason you never see guys posting their groups with their M1A SOCOM's.

Again, I built this to be a research SOCOM. It's a different beast entirely. I actually went back to my traditional stock made out of carbon/graphite/kevlar. The JAE typically milks out the best accuracy in nearly all M14-type rifles. With the SOCOM, I'm not so sure.

Notice back in my original response to this post, I recommended the Scout and I did so for a reason.

This is the third or fourth SOCOM I've worked on. All of them display the 45˚ group dispersion when loaded to max load with 168's and 175's. Sometimes it's 2" and sometimes it's 4".

I did get a nice 0.7" group at 50, then 2.198" (one flyer) at 100 with light loaded 155 grain Berger hybrids with 41.0 grains of IMR-3031. All other groups above that grouped somewhere between 1.2" and 1.6" at 50 yards.

I'm going to mess with 125's again too and see what I can do with those or maybe some 135 grain varminters.

One of the design flaws in the SOCOM is in the factory muzzle brake. there's a gap between the muzzle crown and the internal crown of the brake that creates turbulence gap. I solved it by installing a Delta-P muzzle adapter which eliminates this.

The SOCOM is also horribly over-gassed and I installed a Schuster gas plug which I can tune to slow down the action when using hotter loads.

One thing I've noticed is that with the SOCOM, you get better groups if you can acquire the target quickly on follow-up shots and reduce the time interval between shots. If you wait too long, you get a larger diagonal dispersement.

I'm trying to figure out which stocks, bullets, velocities, muzzle devices and accessories can make the SOCOM-16 shoot better. I don't post targets to brag, because they are not brag-worthy. I post targets and results for data collection.

Tony.


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-01 FFL
www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction).
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Posts: 3334 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I shot two 5 round groups at 100 yards last time I checked the zero on my socom and one was 1.8ish and the other was 2.25 inches. Same thing I didn't take any pictures because it wasn't anything to write home about. I'd say it isn't too terrible considering I was using some German MEN NATO ball and a 1.5-5x scope. I'm not going to take the time to try and turn it into a precision gun or anything since I have a few of those already but I'd say it's more than accurate enough for the shooting competitions or hunting most would do with it. If I did spend the time and money I don't think I'd get it below 1.5 to 1 MOA anyways based off what I've seen from the EBRs I have shot for work and a few different buddies nice LRBs or National match rifles etc.

I don't think anyone is trying to argue a M1A is as accurate as a good AR10 straight from the shelf. I guess I would say the flipside of that would be how many AR10s can chug through 800 rounds of steel cased without choking? Undoubtedly a few would but the M1A is still a great rifle today. If I was a guy who only shot to do precision (kind of am but I have a fair amount of carbines and do lot of 3 gun in addition to PRS) the M1A wouldn't be my first choice unless I was looking more for a battle rifle.

Will be at least a few more weeks before I shoot it again but I will try to get a hold of some of the 138 grain (think that's right) SOST and see how it does at a 100 and snap some pictures but I'm guessing it's around 2 MOA..... but then again I had some PPU and wolf shoot 3-4 MOA so you never know.
 
Posts: 200 | Registered: June 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by benny6:
One thing I've noticed is that with the SOCOM, you get better groups if you can acquire the target quickly on follow-up shots and reduce the time interval between shots. If you wait too long, you get a larger diagonal dispersement.

This statement puzzles me. What is the estimated time period between shots?

(1) Is the time fractions of a second, such that the gun is still in the cycling process? Essentially meaning that rifle is doubling, or acting like a full auto.

(2) Is this time a second or two? Meaning as quickly as you can get the sights back on target. Has the round cycling process been completed prior to touching off the next round?

(3) Is this time 10 or 20 seconds, or even more?

Honestly, there is no mechanical difference in the rifle between #2 and #3. If there is an accuracy difference between #2 an #3, it is shooter induced.
 
Posts: 6111 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
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With a normal M14/M1A, I keep my pace to about one shot per minute. If I do this with the SOCOM, I get a more dispersed group. I don't rush my shots, but I don't keep a set pace. I try to keep my shots down to 10 to 20 seconds between shots, or whenever I have a good sight picture and can squeeze off a precise shot.

M14's with GI profile barrels (like the SOCOM) will have more shot dispersion with barrel temperature fluctuations than medium weight and heavy weight barrels.

I learned that when I tried to get my GI profile M1A with GI chrome lined H&R barrel to shoot under 1.5 MOA for five consecutive five shot groups. Basically, I had to warm the barrel up and give it a couple of minutes to rest. Then I'd shoot five rounds with each shot spaced out roughly one minute apart. Sometimes two minutes worked better. I was eventually able to shoot about 1.25 MOA with that standard M1A in a Blackfeatehr chassis using that timed routine. If I deviated or let the barrel cool down too much, the first round was way off before the rest settled in. With the SOCOM, the first shot is always low left and the rest hit high right when I use 168 or 175 grain FGMM.

Remember, the SOCOM has the lightest and smallest barrel of all the M1A's out there. It's not a loaded with a shorter barrel. The loaded's can shoot really well with that medium weight barrel.

And keep in mind, most of the guys shooting SOCOM's are shooting either iron sights or red dots. Two to three inch groups are probably just fine for them.

Tony.


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-01 FFL
www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction).
e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com
 
Posts: 3334 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OK, just a different understanding of what a quick follow-up shot means. For me with a semi-auto, that's probably 2-4 seconds. For a bolt action, probably in the 4-6 second ballpark. Other than a non-free-floated barrel on a 1948-era Winchester Model 70, none of my rifles really show POI changes with barrel temperature changes. Therefore, I don't pay any attention to barrel temps on 5-shot strings for accuracy.
 
Posts: 6111 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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