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Hornady tap or Speer gold dot 5.56 Login/Join 
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Looking at building up some good self defense ammo for my 5.56 rifles. Everyone suggest hornady tap but I can get more Speer gold soft point for the money. Any reason to not just get the Speer gold dot?
 
Posts: 939 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
fugitive from reality
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They are both excellent rounds. The tactical crowd tends to fan boy a bit over what the military is currently using, but Gold Dot is used by a lot of police departments. The question is are you looking for barrier penetration or soft targer performance?


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Posts: 6339 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would say soft target. But any clue on how the Speer does on barriers?
 
Posts: 939 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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What specific load(s) are you considering?

The Hornady 55 grain TAP I’m familiar with is a fast expanding design that may not penetrate deeply, and especially not through barriers. It’s specifically recommended for use when overpenetration is a concern.
On the other hand, the 5.56 53 grain GMX with a solid copper hollow point bullet penetrates very well. A couple of links:

https://www.hornadyle.com/rifl...n/55-gr-tap-urban#!/

https://www.hornadyle.com/rifl...x-tap-patrol-nato#!/

In my personal testing of various 223 loads some years ago, the 64 grain (now 62 gn.) Speer Gold Dot penetrated barriers better than loads like the 5.56 M193 or M855. It’s what I settled on for issuing to my agency’s officers.

https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/wo...load_comparison.aspx




“One of the great ironies of our age is that we have somehow managed to become far more sanctimonious than previous generations—and yet far more immoral by traditional standards as well. We can obsess over an unartful presidential comment, but snore through the systematic destruction of the manufacturing basis of an entire state or ignore warlike violence on the streets of Chicago.”
— Victor Davis Hanson, The Case for Trump 274
 
Posts: 40279 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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On the tap I was not sure but on the Speer the 75 grain soft point.
 
Posts: 939 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Link for the Speer ballistics for the 75 grain GD:

https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/wo...load_comparison.aspx




“One of the great ironies of our age is that we have somehow managed to become far more sanctimonious than previous generations—and yet far more immoral by traditional standards as well. We can obsess over an unartful presidential comment, but snore through the systematic destruction of the manufacturing basis of an entire state or ignore warlike violence on the streets of Chicago.”
— Victor Davis Hanson, The Case for Trump 274
 
Posts: 40279 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank you. I did look and the 64 seem to hold up better vs barriers. It looks like the 64gr has been discontinued.
 
Posts: 939 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Yes, I haven’t seen the 64 grain Gold Dot in quite some time. I assume the weight was changed to 62 grains so it was the same as M855 and therefore less confusing to some users. I would expect it to perform virtually the same as the 64. In my testing I actually saw a little higher velocity for the 64 grain version than what Speer claims for the 62, about 50 fps.




“One of the great ironies of our age is that we have somehow managed to become far more sanctimonious than previous generations—and yet far more immoral by traditional standards as well. We can obsess over an unartful presidential comment, but snore through the systematic destruction of the manufacturing basis of an entire state or ignore warlike violence on the streets of Chicago.”
— Victor Davis Hanson, The Case for Trump 274
 
Posts: 40279 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My understanding is also that the 64 grain Gold Dot is gone. Our agency has converted to 62 grain. We have not noticed a shift in zero at a level the average shooter can perceive. I have an LPVO gun zeroed for it and cannot tell the difference.
 
Posts: 2994 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by gambit123:
I would say soft target. But any clue on how the Speer does on barriers?


If you are planning on engaging auto glass or sheet metal you don't want a soft point round. A bonded FMJ or open tip match round is going to give better performance in those situations. For personal defence an expanding hollow point or soft tip is a better choice.


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Posts: 6339 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
quote:
Originally posted by gambit123:
I would say soft target. But any clue on how the Speer does on barriers?


If you are planning on engaging auto glass or sheet metal you don't want a soft point round. A bonded FMJ or open tip match round is going to give better performance in those situations. For personal defence an expanding hollow point or soft tip is a better choice.

Any suggestions? My budget is around 600.00
 
Posts: 939 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Speer Gold Dot. Tap is crap.


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Posts: 5537 | Location: Montana  | Registered: May 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
fugitive from reality
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quote:
Originally posted by gambit123:
quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
quote:
Originally posted by gambit123:
I would say soft target. But any clue on how the Speer does on barriers?


If you are planning on engaging auto glass or sheet metal you don't want a soft point round. A bonded FMJ or open tip match round is going to give better performance in those situations. For personal defence an expanding hollow point or soft tip is a better choice.

Any suggestions? My budget is around 600.00


Since they're both good rounds I'd go with whatever is cheaper. You really can't go wrong with either one.


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Posts: 6339 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by DaBigBR:
My understanding is also that the 64 grain Gold Dot is gone. Our agency has converted to 62 grain. We have not noticed a shift in zero at a level the average shooter can perceive. I have an LPVO gun zeroed for it and cannot tell the difference.


BoneFrog has 55, 62, 64, 75gr:

https://www.bonefroggunclub.co...speer?sort_by=manual


"No matter where you go - there you are"
 
Posts: 3636 | Location: Eastern PA-Berks/Lehigh Valley | Registered: January 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
If you are planning on engaging auto glass or sheet metal you don't want a soft point round. A bonded FMJ or open tip match round is going to give better performance in those situations.


Based on my personal testing, I must disagree. I am not familiar with any bonded FMJ bullets, but I have tested M193 (55 grain) and M855 (62 grain) bullets through a 1976 pickup windshield as well as a couple of 75 grain open tip bullets, the Hornady TAP and FPD, and compared them with the 64 grain Gold Dot soft point.

With the exception of the Gold Dots, all the bullets broke up and penetrated only a very limited distance into my test medium (water soaked newsprint). The test pack was about 8 inches thick and a piece of card stock (manila folder card) was placed at the front of the pack which was positioned on the vehicle seat about where the driver or passenger would normally sit.

The two Gold Dot bullets did not show signs of tumbling or significant breakup before encountering the test media pack. One bullet perforated the pack entirely and broke out the rear window of the pickup cab. The other bullet (pictured below) penetrated all the way through the newsprint and was stopped by a layer of duct tape holding the pack together.

Hornady 75 grain open tip law enforcement TAP. I had a chance to see this same load fired into calibrated test gelatin through laminated automotive glass and although I didn’t record the precise results (and unfortunately had no camera with me), I did note at the time that it broke up and performed poorly.


Hornady 75 grain open tip “For Personal Defense”


M855 (62 grain FMJ “green tip”)


M193 (55 grain FMJ)


Speer 64 grain Gold Dot soft point. The small holes to the side were probably made by glass fragments, but the bullet could have lost some of its material based on how it was deformed by the glass before it passed through the witness card.


The one recovered 64 grain Gold Dot bullet found against the tape at the back of the media pack. (The unfired FMJ bullet is just for scale.)




The recovered bullet retained 29 grains of the original 64.

The number of samples of shots of each type of bullet was obviously very limited, but I believe the above results have some informational value. I have fired the same bullets into other test packs without going through barrier material, and the results were generally consistent with the above.

I believe that for maximum penetration with today’s bullets, a solid copper alloy slug would be best, and that seems to be borne out by manufacturers’ gelatin test data.




“One of the great ironies of our age is that we have somehow managed to become far more sanctimonious than previous generations—and yet far more immoral by traditional standards as well. We can obsess over an unartful presidential comment, but snore through the systematic destruction of the manufacturing basis of an entire state or ignore warlike violence on the streets of Chicago.”
— Victor Davis Hanson, The Case for Trump 274
 
Posts: 40279 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Below is some testing done by Dr. Gary Roberts. His data shows that the tested bonded rounds retained more weight than similar non bonded rounds when fired through barriers. I'm not saying your data is wrong, but mine might not be current with today's bullets.

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/proj...Barrier%20Rounds.htm

This the entire AR-15.com section on ballistic testing for both rifle and pistol rounds.

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/proj..._FAQ/#mozTocId778915


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'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'.

 
Posts: 6339 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
His data shows that the tested bonded rounds retained more weight than similar non bonded rounds when fired through barriers.


No doubt. I am sure that's why the Gold Dots I tested did so much better than the nonbonded bullets.




“One of the great ironies of our age is that we have somehow managed to become far more sanctimonious than previous generations—and yet far more immoral by traditional standards as well. We can obsess over an unartful presidential comment, but snore through the systematic destruction of the manufacturing basis of an entire state or ignore warlike violence on the streets of Chicago.”
— Victor Davis Hanson, The Case for Trump 274
 
Posts: 40279 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by SgtGold:
His data shows that the tested bonded rounds retained more weight than similar non bonded rounds when fired through barriers.


No doubt. I am sure that's why the Gold Dots I tested did so much better than the nonbonded bullets.


I didn't realize some of your rounds were bonded. My bad.


_____________________________
'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'.

 
Posts: 6339 | Location: Newyorkistan | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sgalczyn:
quote:
Originally posted by DaBigBR:
My understanding is also that the 64 grain Gold Dot is gone. Our agency has converted to 62 grain. We have not noticed a shift in zero at a level the average shooter can perceive. I have an LPVO gun zeroed for it and cannot tell the difference.

BoneFrog has 55, 62, 64, 75gr:

https://www.bonefroggunclub.co...speer?sort_by=manual

Didn't somebody say not long ago that BoneFrog is only selling to LEOs now? I've got some 64gr GDSP at home and I'd like to stock up on some more while I can still get it.
 
Posts: 5746 | Location: Portland, OR | Registered: February 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Go with the Gold Dot.

Everyone I talked to swears by them. The fbi seems to like the Gold Dots as well. The fbi Ballistic guys are probably the best at what they do (unlike the other 90%).


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"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 5777 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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