Pistol / carbine competition tips or lessons learned

November 21, 2020, 09:55 AM

Recently I started shooting in the local IDPA matches. So far I have only shot in the " outlaw" shoots that are loosely based on IDPA rules. It's been damned fun and a great way to learn to draw/shoot/move in a highe lr stressed environment.

They have a pistol / carbine shoot in Dec that I have registered for and was hoping to pick the SF brain trust on tips and lessons learned.

At my first match the RSO was nice enough to point out that some of my habits, like moving with the pistol at low ready was not great for competition due to the likely hood of sweeping myself.

Anything like that with the carbine?

While I have practiced transitions I don't know what is permissible in competition?

Kit wise, I was planning on the below....feed back would be great.

Pistol
G17 with tlr1
Pistol belt (Rapture tac ODIN) with 2 pistol mags and one AR mag- both bladetech pouches
Holster - safariland ALS med ride
I will probably leave the dump pouch and TQ on the belt

Carbine
Really want to use my 11.5" sbr, w a binary trigger, possibly with the can on it ( AAC ssn6), scope is a TR24 with a triangle reticle. The reticle is quite fast but I am slightly concerned with it's precision at 250y. This is my HD setup

Other option is a 16" mid gas setup with a PA 1x8 and a geisselle trigger.

I was even tempted to try the Gau5 repo I built, it has been awhile since I shot irons at distance....could be fun as it is so light and quick compared to the others.

Again any feedback is welcome...

November 21, 2020, 11:34 AM

mlazarus

Depending on the range/match, your rifle set up may be limited to pistol caliber. My suggestion is focusing on accuracy, and place zero emphasis on speed at this point. Review the stage layout and then mentally rehearse it. When you rehearse the stages, make sure you are imagining safe movements and gun handling. Remember where the targets are and position from where you will engage.You would not be the first person to blow by a target, or array of targets after the buzzer sounds.

November 21, 2020, 11:44 AM

dewhorse

Thank you, I am still at the draw shoot walk stage. Totally agree on your focus points.

We had a gentleman in our squad who was at least 70 and we joked about who would be slower.....I was by 5 seconds.

November 21, 2020, 01:27 PM

IndianaBoy

quote:
Originally posted by dewhorse:

Carbine
Really want to use my 11.5" sbr, w a binary trigger,

Again any feedback is welcome...

Binary triggers are gimmicky contraptions that are borderline unsafe and don't belong on the range at a competition.

That is my honest feedback from the first thing that jumped out at me.

If you are new to competitions and at the slow walk stage, there is no reason to introduce the uncertainty of letting a round fly inadvertently.

Excepting the binary trigger either of your options with optics would be a fine choice.

November 21, 2020, 04:04 PM

SgtGold

IIRC low ready is the gun pointed down at a 45 degree angle. I can't see how that would 'paint' on any part of your body, but I wasn't there. The biggest piece of advice I can give you is take it slow and make sure you fully understand the safety procedures that will be in place while shooting the match. An example could be if you start with your back to the target, you can't start your draw stroke until you have completely turned around. I saw someone DQ'd for this exact violation. Above all take it as slow as you have to. The speed can come later.

November 21, 2020, 05:06 PM

dewhorse

quote:
Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
quote:
Originally posted by dewhorse:

Carbine
Really want to use my 11.5" sbr, w a binary trigger,

Again any feedback is welcome...

Binary triggers are gimmicky contraptions that are borderline unsafe and don't belong on the range at a competition.

That is my honest feedback from the first thing that jumped out at me.

If you are new to competitions and at the slow walk stage, there is no reason to introduce the uncertainty of letting a round fly inadvertently.

Excepting the binary trigger either of your options with optics would be a fine choice.

Good point......might be bad......

November 21, 2020, 10:16 PM

IndianaBoy

quote:
Originally posted by dewhorse:
quote:
Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
quote:
Originally posted by dewhorse:

Carbine
Really want to use my 11.5" sbr, w a binary trigger,

Again any feedback is welcome...

Binary triggers are gimmicky contraptions that are borderline unsafe and don't belong on the range at a competition.

That is my honest feedback from the first thing that jumped out at me.

If you are new to competitions and at the slow walk stage, there is no reason to introduce the uncertainty of letting a round fly inadvertently.

Excepting the binary trigger either of your options with optics would be a fine choice.

Good point......might be bad......

I'm not trying to be an ass.

This is America, the land of the free, and we should all be able to buy machine guns at the local hardware store.

Binary triggers take a simple muscle movement and transform it into a process.

Shooting targets deliberately means that you shoot to neutralize. What do you do with your rifle if you have just neutralized a target and now you have a pressed trigger that is ready to fire? Now you need to flip it to safe or let the round safely fly.

The split times that can be achieved with a binary trigger are meaningless when it comes to action shooting. I say this as a long time 3 gunner. The speed at which a trigger can be physically pulled is NEVER the speed limit on a stage.

Binary triggers were cool when bump stocks were legal and they could up the rate of fire. I know some guys who built HEAVY 'bump saws' and they could engage targets out to 400 yards with accurate bursts very much like a light machine gun.

In an actual rifle I consider binary triggers to be a dangerous liability.

Again, land of the free, do what you like. I wouldn't have one in a competition rifle if it was given to me for free.

November 21, 2020, 10:25 PM

jljones

Biggest advice I would give is get really good at running the selector. Anytime you aren’t shooting, the selector has to be on safe. If you have to think about running the selector you stand a pretty good chance of moving with the rifle off safe.

November 22, 2020, 07:13 AM

fritz

quote:
Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
Binary triggers were cool when bump stocks were legal and they could up the rate of fire.
In an actual rifle I consider binary triggers to be a dangerous liability.

Exactly. IMO binary triggers have no place in a competition.

OP -- take note of the following:

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Biggest advice I would give is get really good at running the selector. Anytime you aren’t shooting, the selector has to be on safe.

Many moons ago I attended a carbine/pistol training course at Grayguns, with jljones as the carbine instructor. Towards the end of the course, we did a run-and-gun course. One time that jljones was running the course for time, he tripped and fell right as he finished shooting his carbine -- and transitioning to the next target. Jljones kept the carbine pointed in a safe direction, so there weren't any safety issues -- I was effectively the RO for his run through the course. When he picked himself up from the ground, both jlJones and I noticed that his carbine was on safe.

Jljones has likely practiced putting the AR on safe so often, that it just occurred -- even when things went south. I doubt I will ever forget this lesson. I also doubt I will ever get as good as he is.

November 22, 2020, 10:42 AM

dewhorse

quote:
Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
quote:
Originally posted by dewhorse:
quote:
Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
quote:
Originally posted by dewhorse:

Carbine
Really want to use my 11.5" sbr, w a binary trigger,

Again any feedback is welcome...

Binary triggers are gimmicky contraptions that are borderline unsafe and don't belong on the range at a competition.

That is my honest feedback from the first thing that jumped out at me.

If you are new to competitions and at the slow walk stage, there is no reason to introduce the uncertainty of letting a round fly inadvertently.

Excepting the binary trigger either of your options with optics would be a fine choice.

Good point......might be bad......

I'm not trying to be an ass.

This is America, the land of the free, and we should all be able to buy machine guns at the local hardware store.

Binary triggers take a simple muscle movement and transform it into a process.

Shooting targets deliberately means that you shoot to neutralize. What do you do with your rifle if you have just neutralized a target and now you have a pressed trigger that is ready to fire? Now you need to flip it to safe or let the round safely fly.

The split times that can be achieved with a binary trigger are meaningless when it comes to action shooting. I say this as a long time 3 gunner. The speed at which a trigger can be physically pulled is NEVER the speed limit on a stage.

Binary triggers were cool when bump stocks were legal and they could up the rate of fire. I know some guys who built HEAVY 'bump saws' and they could engage targets out to 400 yards with accurate bursts very much like a light machine gun.

In an actual rifle I consider binary triggers to be a dangerous liability.

Again, land of the free, do what you like. I wouldn't have one in a competition rifle if it was given to me for free.

Certainly wasn't thinking you were trying to be an ass. I had thought the same about a possible ooops, while very unlikely it could happen. I certainly had no intention of actually using it to game my splits....

And regarding binary triggers in general, my first went into a rifle similar to what you describe. It's built as a poor man's M27. Wish I had bought ine of the Canadian LAR uppers in the late 90s when they were $499.

November 23, 2020, 10:41 AM

Rinehart

Mentally prepare yourself for the sound of expensive ejected magazines impacting on gravel/rocks.

I did a defensive pistol shoot in Western NY and the ground covering around the range areas was rough gravel/rock. Did a number on some of my ejected mags.

November 23, 2020, 01:20 PM

sigarmsp226

Dewhorse - Only one point of advice from one who has shot PCC in local IDPA matches for three years - Do NOT try and mimic what others do before you...Develop your game plan before you shoot each course and stick to that plan....and remember you are only competing against yourself. At the end of the day no matter what the final times/scores reflect the more “zero”, “zero”, “zero’s” you hear as your targets are being scored the better (but you know this)....Make your shots count even if you have to slow down a little (for now) to accomplish that....I was amazed at how after just a few matches my comfort level with those difficult shots became the challenge for me to figure out during the course review how I could manage them with a carbine length weapon in my hand...Many times I end up shooting some of those targets from the opposite shoulder....

November 23, 2020, 02:43 PM

dbgeek

Know the rules. Different orgs use very different rule sets, and if you mix them up, you may be branded an unsafe shooter.

Otherwise, I find that I score far better when I slow down a little bit and focus on getting good hits. Some days the sight picture is right there, and other days it isn't - adapt.

November 23, 2020, 03:25 PM

sigfreund

quote:
Originally posted by Rinehart:
Did a number on some of my ejected mags.

Enough of a reason to try to protect them. My latest purchases were Grayguns “hard use” aluminum floor plates for P320 magazines. Before that were P226 floor plates that had rubberized cushions, and I’ve even used homemade pads on the bottoms.

It’s also why I have dedicated training magazines. Once they get beat up to a certain degree, I no longer cringe when they hit the rocks. The peace of mind alone is worth the extra expense to buy them in the first place.

November 23, 2020, 03:51 PM

hrcjon

The op is running a glock and an ar. I have dropped glock mags tens and tens of thousands of times on every imaginable surface. I can count the number of problems on one hand. So in the last three decades I might have spend $100 on replacing glock mags. I have dropped AR mags on those same surfaces way fewer times but with more damage but still not a significant percentage, but the plastic mags like HK, magpuls and the lancers seem to do fine. And even in today's mess its easy enough to find AR mags inexpensively. If you are going to run competitions mags are simply one of the costs and not a material one in any case. I wouldn't be tossing rare and very expensive mags in any case and the rules don't generally require it.

November 23, 2020, 05:12 PM

fritz

quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
If you are going to run competitions mags are simply one of the costs and not a material one in any case.

Exactly.
Competition beats up equipment -- guns, magazines, optics, cases, clothing, accessories. One can either accept that, or find a different game. Safe queens aren't used in matches, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, competition results in equipment wear, and there's really no getting around that. Magazines become consumable items. Shoot enough and so will barrels and optics. With enough mileage, even the guns themselves must be retired.

I began to understand this as I was moving from AA to Master class in sporting clays. At one state championship, it was raining like a mofo on 5-Stand day. Full on cats and dogs, weather more suited for a deluge at a coastal area than at a mountain state. My wood-stocked Browning O/U soaked up water like a sponge. While waiting for my turns to shoot, the rain just ran down the barrels of my opened shotgun. Many peers pulled out of that day's shoot, stating they wouldn't risk their Berettas to the weather. My squad included one of the best sporting clays competitors in the country. He used his regular Krieghoff shotgun -- amazing wood grain on the stock, and probably worth $15k.

I shot well in spite of the rain, and along with other events during that match, IIRC scored enough punches to make Master class. The weekend solidified my friendship with the said Krieghoff shooter, and we shot together more often in subsequent years. Whatever damage, if any, that occurred to my shotgun's wood was more than repaid by the knowledge I gained by observing one of the best competitors.

As to the Krieghoff dude and his wet gun, he just shook it off as part of the game. He stated that the scrapes and bumps to his shotgun just gave it character.

November 23, 2020, 05:56 PM

IndianaBoy

quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
If you are going to run competitions mags are simply one of the costs and not a material one in any case.

Exactly.
Competition beats up equipment -- guns, magazines, optics, cases, clothing, accessories. One can either accept that, or find a different game. Safe queens aren't used in matches, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, competition results in equipment wear, and there's really no getting around that. Magazines become consumable items. Shoot enough and so will barrels and optics. With enough mileage, even the guns themselves must be retired.

I began to understand this as I was moving from AA to Master class in sporting clays. At one state championship, it was raining like a mofo on 5-Stand day. Full on cats and dogs, weather more suited for a deluge at a coastal area than at a mountain state. My wood-stocked Browning O/U soaked up water like a sponge. While waiting for my turns to shoot, the rain just ran down the barrels of my opened shotgun. Many peers pulled out of that day's shoot, stating they wouldn't risk their Berettas to the weather. My squad included one of the best sporting clays competitors in the country. He used his regular Krieghoff shotgun -- amazing wood grain on the stock, and probably worth $15k.

I shot well in spite of the rain, and along with other events during that match, IIRC scored enough punches to make Master class. The weekend solidified my friendship with the said Krieghoff shooter, and we shot together more often in subsequent years. Whatever damage, if any, that occurred to my shotgun's wood was more than repaid by the knowledge I gained by observing one of the best competitors.

As to the Krieghoff dude and his wet gun, he just shook it off as part of the game. He stated that the scrapes and bumps to his shotgun just gave it character.

My 3-gun gear gets the crap beat out of it.

Scratches, dings, dirt, mud.

A few years ago I saw a guy drop a 3k+ 2011 off of a dock and into a lake on a stage. They fished it out with a big magnet.

You find out pretty quickly what works and what doesn't.