Greetings all. I have an Aimpoint Pro for my AR, but I need help seeing longer distances. Should I get a magnifier for it (suggestions, please), or should I just get a dedicated scope (Vortex Spitfire, I think)?

Use is mostly for plinking, but is preferred rodent dispatch weapon. HD backup purposes.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Correction made: Vortex Strike Eagle is being considered.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: craigcpa,

I've been looking at the Primary Arms 1-6x Gen3 scopes like:

http://www.primaryarms.com/pa-...css-predator-reticle

Yes, you'd be paying more for a scope & mount but I'd think something like a 1-4/1-6/1-8 would give you more options.

^^^the primary arms stuff is good stuff and they just released their FFP version as well. As far as magnifiers go look at Burris and/or Vortex, as the Aimpoint one is around 5-6 hundo !! :O

I like the versatility of a red dot plus a magnifier in a flip-to-side mount. Straight red dot at 1x, plus full magnification as needed.

Even with variable power scopes, most folks aren't using the in-between settings. On a 1-4x, for example, the scope will 99.9% of the time be at either 1x or 4x. 2x/3x won't such much/any use.

In addition, variable power scopes don't have unlimited eye boxes, even at 1x. And many of them (especially cheaper ones) aren't a true 1x at the low end, so you end up with a somewhat distorted view when shooting with both eyes open at 1x. Plus, they don't have the same always-on/long battery life of the Aimpoint.

The downside to the red dot/magnifier combo is that if you're starting from scratch, you'll often spend more on a red dot + magnifier + mounts than on a decent variable power scope. You may end up having to buy a cantilever mount for your Aimpoint, to give yourself enough room on the upper for a red dot, magnifier, and BUIS.

But if you already have the Pro, it's not that expensive to just add a magnifier. You can get a name-brand Aimpoint magnifier for under $300, and there are even cheaper alternatives.

For example, I've been very happy with my sub-$100 Primary Arms magnifier paired with a Pro on one of my ARs (although the factory magnifier mount is junk, and was replaced with a Larue mount):

I like both LPV and RDS w/magnifier.

I like the VMX-3T from Vortex. Even if you don't leave it on all the time, I find it very useful for getting a tight zero with all my RDS.

Timely thread. I've been looking at LPV scopes for my AR, but I still love my Aimpoint PRO so I'm researching magnifiers. A few questions:

1. What specific magnifiers do you guys recommend?
2. Which are proven to work well with an Aimpoint PRO?
3. Will the magnifiers work with the factory mount that comes with the PRO height-wise? I believe its somewhere between co-witness and lower 1/3 cowitness height. Do they line up correctly?
4. Is a cantilever mount really necessary for the PRO if using a magnifier?

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
1. What specific magnifiers do you guys recommend?

The Aimpoint brand magnifiers are nice, but in my opinion, they're not $200-$500 nicer than my ~$100 Primary Arms 3x LER magnifier I mentioned above.

You might consider going with a cheaper one from someone like Primary Arms or Vortex, try it out for a while, and once you know you're going to stick with a magnifier, you can decide whether the relatively minor difference in magnifier quality is worth the extra cost to upgrade to a name-brand magnifier.

For my purposes, I decided that it was not. The biggest area of cost savings in the cheaper Primary Arms magnifier was in the mount, which frankly sucks and should be replaced with a better quality mount from someone like Larue or Bobro (which I've already done).

quote:

2. Which are proven to work well with an Aimpoint PRO?

Any standalone magnifier will work with red dot sights, like the Pro.

However, in addition to price/quality/etc., one of the big things you'll want to consider is eye relief. Some of the cheap magnifiers will have a short eye relief (1 to 2 inches), requiring your to scrunch up on the rifle to get an optimal view through the magnifier. Unless you're one of the folks who likes to shoot "nose to charging handle", you'll probably want to look for one with a more generous eye relief (2.5 to 3+ inches).

quote:

3. Will the magnifiers work with the factory mount that comes with the PRO height-wise? I believe its somewhere between co-witness and lower 1/3 cowitness height. Do they line up correctly?

Most (all?) magnifiers will have windage- and elevation-style adjustment screws, which will allow you to adjust the magnifier to center the dot in the field of view. As a result, magnifiers are very forgiving for slight deviations in mount height. They don't need to line up exactly; they just need to be relatively close. You can have as much as a half inch or so of offset, and it'll still work.

So something with an absolute height magnifier will work just fine with the factory Pro mount, as will a lower 1/3 height magnifier. You'll just have to dial in some extra "elevation" adjustment on the magnifier to move the red dot from the upper or lower portion of the view into the center.

In my case, since I had to swap to a cantilever mount anyway, I got matching height mounts for both the Pro and magnifier, just to slightly simplify things. But that's not strictly necessary.

quote:

4. Is a cantilever mount really necessary for the PRO if using a magnifier?

Depends on your exact setup. If you're trying to cram a Pro, magnifier, and BUIS onto the rail on top of your receiver, you very likely will need a cantilever mount to make it all fit. (As seen in my photo above.)

If you leave off the BUIS, you may not.

What do you mean by "HD backup purposes"?

If you mean it is your primary HD gun (what you would reach for 1st), but that is a backup use due to the unlikely-hood of it...I'd do the magnifier because the Aimpoint is King of HD CQB IMHO due to long battry "always on" life and the dot just being there and forgiving of poor cheek weld and odd shooting positions.

If it means you have a different gun you'd reach for 1st for HD, then I'd go with one of the many 1-4 or 1-6 variables out there.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
What do you mean by "HD backup purposes"?

If you mean it is your primary HD gun (what you would reach for 1st), but that is a backup use due to the unlikely-hood of it...I'd do the magnifier because the Aimpoint is King of HD CQB IMHO due to long battry "always on" life and the dot just being there and forgiving of poor cheek weld and odd shooting positions.

If it means you have a different gun you'd reach for 1st for HD, then I'd go with one of the many 1-4 or 1-6 variables out there.

For me, my primary hd weapon is a CX9 - simply my choice. But I live on several wooded acres and have varmits and rodents abound. Those don't concern me. When the coyotes settle the AR will take heed. I have the Pro for the AR.

And thanks all for the responses.

My son and I both have Primary Arms 3x magnifiers. I like mine.

I made a mistake when I called a gun school I was going to go to and they told me that I would not need to bring that.
At 200yds...I needed it.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
. . . the Aimpoint is King of HD CQB . . .

Well, opinions vary.

IMO, with money to burn, the king of HD is EOTech. On a budget, then it's Holosun.

The circle/dot reticle is much faster than a single dot, and the bottom hash mark on the circle allows for precision at short ranges, to account for "mechanical" offset.

Rhino said the same, but I've found having a 3x magnifier on hand is nice to get a very good zero in place on the rifle, but I don't really need it out to ~100+ yards once that zero is in place. I used to have a few dots + 3x magnifiers installed, nowadays they magnifiers are mostly off and just dots remain. But my local range tops out at 200 yards, and most stuff is done at 100 yards or less / maybe steels.

So long as it's something like the aimpoint pro with a small dot, you're pretty good to go well beyond HD ranges once you've got that good zero in place. I also find turning the brightness way down on the dot can help with precision.

If you find the same, then something like the PA magnifier with a cheap mount is fine to get the zero stable. The Vortex one can be had around $150 including a decent mount, which is a pretty strong value as well.

Dot, irons, or even a laser are fine for HD. You aren't going to do well trying to explain a 100 yard shot in a HD situation.

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
. . . the Aimpoint is King of HD CQB . . .

Well, opinions vary.

IMO, with money to burn, the king of HD is EOTech. On a budget, then it's Holosun.

The circle/dot reticle is much faster than a single dot, and the bottom hash mark on the circle allows for precision at short ranges, to account for "mechanical" offset.

Agreed, it's just opinion. Leaving EOTech reliability issues aside, it still likely has to be turned on, even with the 8hr auto-off feature depending on when things go bump. And that would be turning it on every single night before bed.

For HD, to just grab the rifle and have a dot already there with nothing to push negates the better circle-dot reticle IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
. . . the Aimpoint is King of HD CQB . . .

Well, opinions vary.

IMO, with money to burn, the king of HD is EOTech. On a budget, then it's Holosun.

The circle/dot reticle is much faster than a single dot, and the bottom hash mark on the circle allows for precision at short ranges, to account for "mechanical" offset.

Agreed, it's just opinion. Leaving EOTech reliability issues aside, it still likely has to be turned on, even with the 8hr auto-off feature depending on when things go bump. And that would be turning it on every single night before bed.

For HD, to just grab the rifle and have a dot already there with nothing to push negates the better circle-dot reticle IMHO.

And considering the 2” mech offset at the barrel, 1” at 25 yards, and 1/2” from 50 to 125... I dont’ find it difficult to hold 1-2 dots high and get precision hits.

But some people like circles and hashes I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
. . . the Aimpoint is King of HD CQB . . .

Well, opinions vary.

IMO, with money to burn, the king of HD is EOTech. On a budget, then it's Holosun.

The circle/dot reticle is much faster than a single dot, and the bottom hash mark on the circle allows for precision at short ranges, to account for "mechanical" offset.

Agreed, it's just opinion. Leaving EOTech reliability issues aside, it still likely has to be turned on, even with the 8hr auto-off feature depending on when things go bump. And that would be turning it on every single night before bed.

For HD, to just grab the rifle and have a dot already there with nothing to push negates the better circle-dot reticle IMHO.

And considering the 2” mech offset at the barrel, 1” at 25 yards, and 1/2” from 50 to 125... I dont’ find it difficult to hold 1-2 dots high and get precision hits.

But some people like circles and hashes I guess.

Some people, like me and the guys I work with, who do most of their work at "room clearing" distances (you know, the CQB distances for which we are discussing a "king of CQB"), have a requirement to be able to make very precise and fast hostage rescue shots.

With the 65MOA circle, when zeroing the dot for 50/200 yards, the round is within 2 inches of the dot all the way out to about 225 yards. But when a quick and precise short range shot (10 yards or less) where 2" of error is unacceptable, the bottom of the circle allows for quick and precise shooting.

It increases speed in those situations as there is no need to figure out where the dot needs to go to account for the mechanical offset. No worries about vertical or lateral error as the hash at the bottom of the circle IS the zero. We've tested this on a timer, and it's faster and more precise. A local agency has done the same with similar results.

Even when the precision is not needed, and +/- 2" is close enough, it's faster to find the dot when the eye is guided by the circle, or at CQB ranges just put the whole circle COM, and go with no need to focus on the tiny dot. Again, we've tested it, and it's faster.

So yes, "some people," like it, but that's based on real world mission requirements, and testing to back up the choice. They like it specifically for the CQB speed and precision that would be relevant to picking a "king of CQB."