Excessive headspace? Is a rebarrel the only solution? Update
Hey all-
I am looking at an Israeli Mauser 98K that was converted to 7.62 in an arsenal rebuild. The bolt reportedly closes on the Go, NoGo, and Field gauges in 308. Is the rifle unsafe to shoot? I am guessing that it needs some attention but I would like to avoid losing all the Israeli markings on the barrel. Can I get the chamber recut? Would I have to make it a wall hanger or buy a new barrel and lose the cool markings? I would prefer to shoot it.
BruceThis message has been edited. Last edited by: RNshooter,
"The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken
June 16, 2019, 07:25 PM
M1Garandy
Have you tried 7.62 NATO gauges? They are longer than a .308 gauges.
ETA, if my math is correct, a Forster 7.62 Max gauge appears to be .0075" longer than their .308 Field gauge.
June 16, 2019, 08:33 PM
RNshooter
I haven't had my hands on the rifle, yet. Issue reported by the seller. I will be having it checked by a real gunsmith but I am curious as to the fix, if the issue is real.
Bruce
"The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken
June 16, 2019, 08:40 PM
sig operator
I believe you can have a gunsmith set the original barrel back and rechamber it. Not sure of cost.
June 16, 2019, 10:14 PM
IndianaBoy
quote:
Originally posted by sig operator: I believe you can have a gunsmith set the original barrel back and rechamber it. Not sure of cost.
This. A good gunsmith should be able to shorten the barrel and rechamber.
Being a mauser, they will have to cut one full thread revolution to index the extractor relief cut.
That shouldn't be a problem though.
If a good smith does it, you will never know anything was ever done.
June 16, 2019, 11:18 PM
RNshooter
Okay then, does a good smith need the whole rifle or can I pull the barrel and send it out? How can I find someone who would specialize in this kind of work?
Bruce
"The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken
June 16, 2019, 11:22 PM
IndianaBoy
quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter: Okay then, does a good smith need the whole rifle or can I pull the barrel and send it out? How can I find someone who would specialize in this kind of work?
Bruce
They would probably need the barreled action.
June 17, 2019, 08:42 AM
sig operator
They need the barrel, action and bolt to check headspace and fit after the work. This is normal type work for any good gunsmith who does re-barreling. Maybe someone here has had a good experience with a local to you gunsmith. Going online it looks like Reno or JHR gunsmiths might be possible choices.
June 17, 2019, 03:51 PM
arcwelder
If it is chambered in 7.62, use the gauges for 7.62.
As Indiana said, they can turn the barrel down. But, rebarreling a Mauser 98k is no big, Walther still makes the barrels.
Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP
June 17, 2019, 05:05 PM
RogueJSK
quote:
Originally posted by arcwelder76: But, rebarreling a Mauser 98k is no big, Walther still makes the barrels.
If you're going to rebarrel it, your best bet may be to grab one of these NOS Israeli 7.62 K98k barrels for $100:
Damn, you guys are good but Rogue takes the cake! Thanks, everyone!
Bruce
"The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken
June 21, 2019, 12:13 PM
RNshooter
The rifle will be at the gunsmith, later today. We will see if it's safe to fire. If it is, it will just get a deep cleaning and be called good. If not, a new surplus barrel will be ordered.
Bruce
"The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken
June 21, 2019, 07:08 PM
DaBigBR
You definitely have to make sure the right gauges are used. A well-intentioned colleague ordered us a set of .223 gauges for AR-15 armorer inspections and we found a ton of guns closed on the "no-go." That makes sense, since the 223 round is just a bit shorter. None closed on a proper 5.56 no go.
July 07, 2019, 06:52 PM
RNshooter
The gunsmith tells me that he was unable to find a 7.62 NATO Field gauge anywhere.
I looked around online and found "Minimum" and "Maximum" but no ""Field". The explanation of "maximum" was "maximum headspace for a new chamber" not for a service limit for a worn one.
Can anyone point me to a source for a "Field" gauge? I am taking the rifle back and want to check it myself.
Bruce
"The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken
July 07, 2019, 08:50 PM
M1Garandy
7.62 NATO Field gauge length 1.6455".
Forster Products 7.62 NATO Max gauge length 1.6455".
If your bolt closes on a 1.6455" gauge, it sounds like you have long headspace.
I have seen several "gunsmiths" that may own headspace gauges, but have no idea how to properly use them. Not saying that is the case here but it is something to consider. If you are willing to pay the postage both ways, I can lend you a 7.62 Max gauge.
July 07, 2019, 09:33 PM
RNshooter
Thank you for the information and the very generous offer. I think I will want to add both the tool and the skill to my toolbox. I will order a Forester gauge.
Bruce
"The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken
Thanks, Tony. I ordered a Forster gauge, now that I know that it is appropriate to my needs.
The generosity of this forum never ceases to amaze me.
Bruce
"The designer of the gun had clearly not been instructed to beat about the bush. 'Make it evil,' he'd been told. 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for them. If that means sticking all sort of spikes and prongs and blackened bits all over it then so be it. This is not a gun for hanging over the fireplace or sticking in the umbrella stand, it is a gun for going out and making people miserable with." -Douglas Adams
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free." -Niccolo Machiavelli
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. -Mencken