SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Mason's Rifle Room    Pump action shotgun ammo question for bears
Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Pump action shotgun ammo question for bears Login/Join 
Rule #1: Use enough gun
Picture of Bigboreshooter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Slugs and only slugs.

Not necessarily. Hunting bears and defending yourself against a bear are two very different things. Shooting a bear at 40-50 yards is not self defense.

A friend of mine who has successfully hunted both black bear and grizzly decided to book a brown bear hunt in Russia a few years ago. The hunt was scheduled a few weeks before the bears normally appeared from their dens. The local guides would smoke the bears from their dens, while the client waited at the mouth of the den with a shotgun (supplied by the guides) loaded with 3" 00 buckshot (also supplied by the guides). When the bear comes out of the hole, he will be sleepy, disoriented, and lethargic. You literally shoot him from just a few feet away. My friend got a 1,000+ lb bear that way with 00 buckshot.

Say what you will about the hunting method (it's not my cup of tea), but the point is 12ga buckshot killed a helluva big bear at close range. It is apparently the armament of choice among the locals.



When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. Luke 11:21


"Every nation in every region now has a decision to make.
Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." -- George W. Bush

 
Posts: 13582 | Location: Birmingham, Alabama | Registered: February 25, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
My dad killed a massive grizzly bear on the Alaska peninsula about 10 years ago with a 30-06. He was hunting though it wasn't a defensive situation.
 
Posts: 4326 | Location: Alaska | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Constable
posted Hide Post
Get some slugs...end of discussion.
 
Posts: 5228 | Location: Craig, MT | Registered: December 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fortified with Sleestak
Picture of thunderson
posted Hide Post
During most discussions about what pistol to bring for Brown Bear, the most often recommended is .44 magnum although many "lesser" calibers work. The Buffalo Bore LFN +P+ round has a bullet weight of 340gr and a muzzle velocity of 1425ft/sec.

The Remington 12ga High Velocity 2 3/4in slug has a weight of 382gr and a muzzle velocity of 1800ft/sec.

Get some slugs and be confident that should the need arise you'll be good to go.



I have the heart of a lion.......and a lifetime ban from the Toronto Zoo.- Unknown
 
Posts: 4401 | Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA | Registered: November 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
posted Hide Post
quote:
say what you will about the hunting method

can it even be called that, hunting?

what a shamefully colossal bitch-move that reflects poorly upon all hunting.
 
Posts: 22023 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by kilyung:

I'd suggest packing bear spray as well.


Bear spray is all I've packed hiking in Canada, Alaska and several other bear populated areas. Couldn't imagine hiking around with a shotgun...YMMV.
 
Posts: 2358 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Proud member of
the vanning collective
Picture of Black92LX
posted Hide Post
Slugs, slugs, and more slugs is what I carry in my 12 gauge for black bear on my property.


--------------------------------------
Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.
Soren Kierkegaard
 
Posts: 18212 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
Picture of tatortodd
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by xmod:
Brenneke black magic
^^ THIS ^^

I lived in Anchorage, AK, for 5 years and Alberta, Canada, for 2 years. Alaska fish & game carried 3" Brenneke Black Magic in their 12 gauges and its what I had in my 12 gauge.


quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
quote:
Originally posted by kilyung:

I'd suggest packing bear spray as well.


Bear spray is all I've packed hiking in Canada, Alaska and several other bear populated areas. Couldn't imagine hiking around with a shotgun...YMMV.
I saw a bit of everything (big bore revolvers, inadequate caliber pistols, shotguns, .45-70 lever guns, and ak-47s) on the trail in Alaska. My buddy was physically too small for a big bore revolver so we worked him up to Brenneke's (i.e. bird shot, buck shot, cheap 2-3/4" slugs, then Brenneke beasts) and he bought his own shotgun which he carried hiking most weekends with his for the 4 years he lived there.

My preference was to be hiking with my big bore revolver in a chest holster with a buddy with bear spray. Bear spray would be first deployed for 2 seconds, and if that didn't work the remaining 7 seconds along with my Buffalo Bores. Fortunately, I never got past having my hand on the grip as a buddy and I backed away from a brown bear. The only time I cleared leather I was alone in a bowl with a wolverine, but fortunately he scampered off without me having to fire.



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 14829 | Location: N. Houston, TX | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Republican in training
Picture of DonDraper
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by smlsig:
Hi guys-
Our gun club recently had a great buy on some 12 gauge pump action shotguns and I picked one up.

The reason I bought it was that I am planning on taking a few vacations up to Canada and will be in some pretty remote locations and I wanted to have some protection against aggressive wildlife.

The laws of bringing any weapon into Canada is pretty strict but pump action shotguns are allowed provided the proper paperwork is filed.

Anyway, what would you reccomend for ammo? I have heard of potentially using birdshot for the first shot then going with slugs but I really don't know anything about shotgun ammo.

Any shots would be within 30 yards and be to stop an aggressive animal.
Thanks.


You'd be better off finding those "noise maker" shells in order to scare off the bear.


--------------------
I like Sigs and HK's, and maybe Glocks
 
Posts: 1506 | Location: SC | Registered: March 16, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Never miss an
opportunity to STFU
posted Hide Post
I have hunted bear in Canada and several American states. My thought on bear spray is that if a bear is so close you can spray him, you better drop the can and take the safety off your gun.


Never be more than one step away from your sword-Old Greek Wisdom
 
Posts: 1658 | Location: SE Mich-- USA | Registered: September 10, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
Picture of tatortodd
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DonDraper:
quote:
Originally posted by smlsig:
Hi guys-
Our gun club recently had a great buy on some 12 gauge pump action shotguns and I picked one up.

The reason I bought it was that I am planning on taking a few vacations up to Canada and will be in some pretty remote locations and I wanted to have some protection against aggressive wildlife.

The laws of bringing any weapon into Canada is pretty strict but pump action shotguns are allowed provided the proper paperwork is filed.

Anyway, what would you reccomend for ammo? I have heard of potentially using birdshot for the first shot then going with slugs but I really don't know anything about shotgun ammo.

Any shots would be within 30 yards and be to stop an aggressive animal.
Thanks.


You'd be better off finding those "noise maker" shells in order to scare off the bear.
IMO, going 100% less lethal is not wise and less lethal should always be backed up by lethal force.

Here is a prime example of that with a shotgun in bear country. Alaska's North Slope oil field is polar bear territory as well as home to a handful of brown bears. Oil & gas companies employ bear guards to keep the bears away from the camps, producing sites, and work sites. A whole bunch of tools (e.g. scare away with heavy equipment whose operators have had bear hazing training) are utilized on a curious bear before the bear guards' 12 gauge shotguns are deployed. As of 2 years ago, the shotguns were loaded in this order:
1. Noise cracker round. Shot near bear in hopes of scaring away.
2. Bean bag round. Shot at bear in hopes the blunt force impact will scare off bear
3 thru 6. Slugs. Shot at bears that won't scare off.

Back when they built the TransAlaska Pipeline, the bear guards carried .375 H&H magnums.



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 14829 | Location: N. Houston, TX | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
quote:
say what you will about the hunting method

can it even be called that, hunting?

what a shamefully colossal bitch-move that reflects poorly upon all hunting.


Could not agree more. Truly pathetic.
Now, I personally would use slugs. I would see what most Game Wardens are issued as well
 
Posts: 665 | Location: NJ | Registered: September 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bigboreshooter:
quote:
Slugs and only slugs.

Not necessarily. Hunting bears and defending yourself against a bear are two very different things. Shooting a bear at 40-50 yards is not self defense.

A friend of mine who has successfully hunted both black bear and grizzly decided to book a brown bear hunt in Russia a few years ago. The hunt was scheduled a few weeks before the bears normally appeared from their dens. The local guides would smoke the bears from their dens, while the client waited at the mouth of the den with a shotgun (supplied by the guides) loaded with 3" 00 buckshot (also supplied by the guides). When the bear comes out of the hole, he will be sleepy, disoriented, and lethargic. You literally shoot him from just a few feet away. My friend got a 1,000+ lb bear that way with 00 buckshot.

Say what you will about the hunting method (it's not my cup of tea), but the point is 12ga buckshot killed a helluva big bear at close range. It is apparently the armament of choice among the locals.


In a sense, this post has no place in this discussion.

First, it injects a cultural element that very few here are going to understand and thus is going to derail the topic though I don't think that is your intention at all.

Second, the ballistic standard of that area if you will is likely relegated to what those folks have available, and I doubt very much they have access to good rifles.

3rd: Killing a hibernation-drunk bear at a few feet is not a valid comparison to killing a wide-awake and aggressive bear at a few feet. It is the same, exact same thing as my mobile butcher shooting my butcher steers with a .22 magnum vs me killing a injured, crazed and charging range cow with a heavy-loaded .45-70.

I've killed many bear and the last thing I'd be using would be buckshot in ANY form, weight, load or gauge. I've tested many, many types and loads over the years and the parameters of usefulness are so restricted I'd only use it on, well, sleepwalking bear at 4 feet...

LOL.

OP: Check out the entry laws, as I thought you had to have a specific reason for bringing a weapon into Canada and self-protection isn't a valid reason. Check it out, as I am not 100% sure.

As for the ethics of hunting, they vary. What is acceptable in one culture is not in others, and it is the mixing and advertisement of same that causes the biggest ruckus. Personally, I don't really care how they kill them over there if the demands and needs of the human local population are met and {preferably to me} the bear population is sustainable, tho I am not wedded to the latter as there are regions where bear may be a significant nuisance and simply may need to be extirpated or their numbers at least substantially reduced.

Finally, OP, black bear are not much trouble if you don't feed them or mess with them, but brown bear certainly can be. I personally like black bear, both to see and hunt and eat. They are the tastiest meat in the woods. On the other hand, I have no interest in seeing grizzly return to our area {they are little by little}. They are simply adding to the other problem animals we have been forced to put up with by the Federal government for years now {wolves, eagles, other birds of prey, etc} that have cost us so much in the loss of useful game species and livestock.


Quod Apostolici Muneris (December 28, 1878) | LEO XIII. The Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was...
 
Posts: 4810 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of wrightd
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by smlsig:
quote:
Originally posted by kilyung:
quote:
Originally posted by smlsig:
quote:
Originally posted by kilyung:
Slugs are the only logical ammo but I'd be concerned that even 4+1 1oz slugs wouldn't suffice. I'd suggest packing bear spray as well.

If a brown bear gets 4 slugs in him and keeps on coming (and now is really pissed) I'm not sure what some bear spray will do although my wife is in favor of carrying it so we'll have both.


My concern would be how many slugs actually hit the bear - they move insanely fast. I'd use the spray first as a deterrent and then the shotgun as a last resort. While I've never shot at a bear, I have used bear spray and it did a credible job of convincing a curious black bear that I wasn't worth the time.


That was the comment from another friend about using 00buckshot in addition to slugs...you're chance of hitting the bear is greater, albeit not as powerful

Your comment that your chance of hitting the bear is greater with buckshot over slug is just not true at defensive distances, not at all. Take your shotgun to the range and prove it to yourself. Also, I would never use buckshot for brown bear defense, sounds like suicide to me.




NRA Range Safety Officer, Distinguished Expert Shotgun Pistol
Lover of the US Constitution
Wile E. Coyote School of Gunsmithing
2 Guns short of never having enough
 
Posts: 6005 | Registered: February 01, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
A well known bear hunting guide recently was able to protect his clients and put down a charging grizzly with a 9mm loaded with buffalo bore 147g hard cast. I think it took 7 or 8 shots but he stopped the charge.

Not saying that's optimal but it can be done, I believe it was an old s&w pistol of some sort.
 
Posts: 4326 | Location: Alaska | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of smlsig
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
Bear spray is all I've packed hiking in Canada, Alaska and several other bear populated areas. Couldn't imagine hiking around with a shotgun...YMMV.


Our plan is to always take bear spray with us hiking. The shotgun is more for around camp where bears might be attracted by cooking odors etc. I am not planning on taking it hiking.


------------------
Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina

Building high performance custom homes on beautiful Smith Mt. Lake, VA
www.PDandM.com
 
Posts: 3328 | Location: SML & OBX | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of smlsig
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
......
OP: Check out the entry laws, as I thought you had to have a specific reason for bringing a weapon into Canada and self-protection isn't a valid reason. Check it out, as I am not 100% sure.

.......

Finally, OP, black bear are not much trouble if you don't feed them or mess with them, but brown bear certainly can be. I personally like black bear, both to see and hunt and eat. They are the tastiest meat in the woods. On the other hand, I have no interest in seeing grizzly return to our area {they are little by little}. They are simply adding to the other problem animals we have been forced to put up with by the Federal government for years now {wolves, eagles, other birds of prey, etc} that have cost us so much in the loss of useful game species and livestock.


Thanks for the comments.
I have taken black bear here in VA and agree they are not as aggressive as browns but can still present an issue.
Bringing a pump action shotgun for wildlife control is a valid reason for importation according to the RCMP.


------------------
Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina

Building high performance custom homes on beautiful Smith Mt. Lake, VA
www.PDandM.com
 
Posts: 3328 | Location: SML & OBX | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Spent 3 years at Fort Richardson in Alaska, every time we were in the field one squad member carried a Winchester pump with a slug first out the barrel followed by 00Buck. Didn't make me feel any better after seeing what looked like a steaming cow pie on the trail knowing all I had was blanks in my M16.
While training on Sheridan glacier bears were regular visitors to the mess tent and all we had was an ice axe.


NRA Benefactor
 
Posts: 98 | Location: State of Confusion | Registered: July 05, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by smlsig:
Bringing a pump action shotgun for wildlife control is a valid reason for importation according to the RCMP.


Thanks.

That is interesting.


Quod Apostolici Muneris (December 28, 1878) | LEO XIII. The Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was...
 
Posts: 4810 | Location: Idaho, USA | Registered: May 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
A pump a action shotgun with birdshot-slug-slug-slug seems to work.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/6460046624
 
Posts: 528 | Registered: December 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Mason's Rifle Room    Pump action shotgun ammo question for bears

© SIGforum 2017