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Picture of Expert308
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You still haven't said whether you reload or not, but from context I'm kind of gathering that you don't. If that's the case, you'll also find a wider selection of commercial loads for .308 than for any of the 6.5's. Ball, match loads, hunting loads, you name it.
 
Posts: 4883 | Location: Portland, OR | Registered: February 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Raff661:
Yeah I lowered my distance expectations and the reason I'm leaning towards the .308 is the price per round I know 6.5 has gone down a bit but it's still more expensive in my area, and the more range time I can get with the rifle the better but in definitely taking everything u guys are saying into consideration and looking further into it.

Your second post in this thread states, "I I want it for long distance target shooting(200-700 yards) and eventually deer hunting so I rifle than can do both.
IMO target shooting means you want accurate results, which means you should be using quality match ammo. Ammo companies price quality ammo accordingly.

If you're shooting 308 target ammo, your best bang for the buck is along the likes of Federal Gold Medal Match, and Hornady AMax or HPBT. Forget buying ammo from your local retailer -- it's your source of last choice. Buy from the webz and have it shipped in. Good prices for FGMM are around $20 per box of 20. Hornady HPBT can be had for $23-24. Hornady Amax for $25-26. The good overseas match-grade ammo is no longer a bargain, as their prices now are over $20.

As for the cheaper FMJ 308 ammo, I can state by experience that it won't help your accuracy game. It's so inaccurate that you can't tell whether flyers are caused by the ammo or by your technique.

6.5 match ammo (Amax, ELD, or HPBT bullets) is in the same cost ballpark, although not as low as the $20 FGMM through Palmetto or SGA. Hornady costs $23-$25 per box, and now Winchester, Prime, and Sig are in this range. Norma and Nosler are still pretty proud of their 6.5 ammo.

From a real-world accuracy standpoint in the field, with wind, there's no way a 308 can hang with a 6.5. Even at the distances you describe. For example at 400 yards with my altitude, FGMM 175 drifts 9.2" at 400 yards vs. Hornady ELD-M 140 drift of 6.4" with 10 mph cross winds. Step it out to 600 yards and 10 mph wind -- FGMM drifts 21.6" and Hornady drifts 15.6". Basically the 6.5 drifts 30% less than the 308. Ringing steel or punching paper, either way the 6.5 outperforms the 308.

I shoot both 308 and 6.5. My training rifle is the 308; I compete with 6.5. After shooting a 6.5, I often am frustrated by my inability to accurately make wind calls with the 308. Furthermore, the additional recoil from the 308 is noticeable -- even in prone position, but especially so in alternative positions.

Don't start with a 308.
 
Posts: 4842 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 31 | Location: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: July 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Raff661:
Any thoughts on this
http://www.basspro.com/shop/en...ion-rifle-with-bipod


I have one of those in 223, its ok for punching paper but its not something Id use for hunting. Also, the barrel is a strange triangle shape (if you were to look down the barrel) Im not sure if that would make a difference or not if you wanted to upgrade the cheap plastic stock it comes with.

Not s bad gun or anything, just sort of an oddball rifle from remington.
 
Posts: 4248 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Run away -- don't walk -- from the triangular VTR barrel.
 
Posts: 4842 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Equal Opportunity Mocker
Picture of slabsides45
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I'd be interested to see what others think, but I have a nice custom rifle in .25-06 that's a great shooter and can reach out there pretty well (never tried over 400, though). Thoughts from those more advanced shooters?


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Posts: 4223 | Location: Mogadishu on the Mississippi | Registered: February 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by slabsides45:
I'd be interested to see what others think, but I have a nice custom rifle in .25-06 that's a great shooter and can reach out there pretty well

If it works for you, then it's the perfect rifle for you.

As for what the OP described, I see the following issues:
- Long action chambering really isn't needed for the OP's stated use -- both for energy on target and distance to target.
- There isn't a great selection of bullets available in .257. Furthermore, they tend to be lighter hunting bullets, rather than heavier target bullets.
- Factory ammo is limited, and tends to be expensive.
- A lot a powder burning down a relatively small bore. Barrel life will be short.
- I don't see the 25-06 chambering as reasonable for a target rifle. More like a prairie rifle for hunting antelope.
 
Posts: 4842 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That rug really tied
the room together.
Picture of bubbatime
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I have the Savage FCP 308 with the proprietary 10 rd magazine. The rifle is nice, the stock sucks, and the magazine is 100% garbage. The magazine is complete junk. Kills an otherwise nice rifle. I'm waiting patiently, for Magpul to offer a stock/magazine. If not, I have no choice but to drop several hundred more dollars on a better stock/magazine. Not recommended, unless you buy it with the more expensive chassis stock and AI magazine.


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Posts: 3765 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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For ~800 you could get a weatherby vanguard wilderness which comes with a fluted barrel and a bell and carlson stock, its a pretty good value.

Weatherby sells rings made by talley for 40 bucks then you could throw a vx3 on it and have a sub 8lb rifle thats accurate out of the box and you could choose from several different calibers although I dont think they make a 6.5cm.
 
Posts: 4248 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You could get a kimber hunter for under 800 bucks and that comes in 6.5cm, those are good rifles, my kimber is my favorite hunting rifle.
 
Posts: 4248 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raff661
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yeah sorry i forgot to mention i don't reload but its something I'm gonna start doing, i live in a apartment right now but I'm currently in the market for a house so as soon as i get it the first thing I'm gonna do is start getting the things i need to reload.
quote:
Originally posted by Expert308:
You still haven't said whether you reload or not, but from context I'm kind of gathering that you don't. If that's the case, you'll also find a wider selection of commercial loads for .308 than for any of the 6.5's. Ball, match loads, hunting loads, you name it.
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: July 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raff661
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yeah I'm definitely lowering my distance goals, i think I'm just gonna aim for 400 yards and get proficient there before i even think about anything further.
quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
quote:
Originally posted by Raff661:
Yeah I lowered my distance expectations and the reason I'm leaning towards the .308 is the price per round I know 6.5 has gone down a bit but it's still more expensive in my area, and the more range time I can get with the rifle the better but in definitely taking everything u guys are saying into consideration and looking further into it.

Your second post in this thread states, "I I want it for long distance target shooting(200-700 yards) and eventually deer hunting so I rifle than can do both.
IMO target shooting means you want accurate results, which means you should be using quality match ammo. Ammo companies price quality ammo accordingly.

If you're shooting 308 target ammo, your best bang for the buck is along the likes of Federal Gold Medal Match, and Hornady AMax or HPBT. Forget buying ammo from your local retailer -- it's your source of last choice. Buy from the webz and have it shipped in. Good prices for FGMM are around $20 per box of 20. Hornady HPBT can be had for $23-24. Hornady Amax for $25-26. The good overseas match-grade ammo is no longer a bargain, as their prices now are over $20.

As for the cheaper FMJ 308 ammo, I can state by experience that it won't help your accuracy game. It's so inaccurate that you can't tell whether flyers are caused by the ammo or by your technique.

6.5 match ammo (Amax, ELD, or HPBT bullets) is in the same cost ballpark, although not as low as the $20 FGMM through Palmetto or SGA. Hornady costs $23-$25 per box, and now Winchester, Prime, and Sig are in this range. Norma and Nosler are still pretty proud of their 6.5 ammo.

From a real-world accuracy standpoint in the field, with wind, there's no way a 308 can hang with a 6.5. Even at the distances you describe. For example at 400 yards with my altitude, FGMM 175 drifts 9.2" at 400 yards vs. Hornady ELD-M 140 drift of 6.4" with 10 mph cross winds. Step it out to 600 yards and 10 mph wind -- FGMM drifts 21.6" and Hornady drifts 15.6". Basically the 6.5 drifts 30% less than the 308. Ringing steel or punching paper, either way the 6.5 outperforms the 308.

I shoot both 308 and 6.5. My training rifle is the 308; I compete with 6.5. After shooting a 6.5, I often am frustrated by my inability to accurately make wind calls with the 308. Furthermore, the additional recoil from the 308 is noticeable -- even in prone position, but especially so in alternative positions.

Don't start with a 308.
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: July 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Victim of a Series
of Accidents
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Tikka T3 is what you seek. Great accuracy, excellent trigger right out of the box.

The model 700 gets recommended by people who have never owned a Tikka, otherwise they ALSO would have recommended a Tikka.

Wink


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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater
 
Posts: 1867 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: February 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raff661
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Thoughts on this
https://www.armslist.com/posts...-t3-lite-7mm-reg-mag
quote:
Originally posted by TooTech:
Tikka T3 is what you seek. Great accuracy, excellent trigger right out of the box.

The model 700 gets recommended by people who have never owned a Tikka, otherwise they ALSO would have recommended a Tikka.

Wink
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: July 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of arcwelder76
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How first, is "first?"

How much time have you spent sitting behind a bolt?

The first non-surplus bolt gun I ever bought, was a 700 in .223.

At the time I already had autos in .308 and 30.06, bolts in 8mm, 30.06, and more. I knew I wanted a bolt in .308, but I hadn't yet warmed to it.

I don't think you can go wrong with a 700 in .308, and get familiar with it at 2-300yds. Why did I go with a "lesser" caliber than guns that I already had for my first new bolt? I was looking for inexpensive ammo and a downgrade in recoil, but something still moving at ~300yds.

I think the Tikka is a sound suggestion, better than the Savage, which is also a fine first bolt. The very first bolt I bought was either an '03 or 98k I forget which. Not exactly ideal first bolts, but maybe they are.

Keep in mind that it's your first, and there won't be a last. Best to just go with the gut and get shooting.


Arc.
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Posts: 23597 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Raff661
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It's my first I would be buying but not shot, I've shot my buddies mossberg not sure the model but it was a 7mm-08 and 30-06 but not enough to see what I liked or disliked
quote:
Originally posted by arcwelder76:
How first, is "first?"

How much time have you spent sitting behind a bolt?

The first non-surplus bolt gun I ever bought, was a 700 in .223.

At the time I already had autos in .308 and 30.06, bolts in 8mm, 30.06, and more. I knew I wanted a bolt in .308, but I hadn't yet warmed to it.

I don't think you can go wrong with a 700 in .308, and get familiar with it at 2-300yds. Why did I go with a "lesser" caliber than guns that I already had for my first new bolt? I was looking for inexpensive ammo and a downgrade in recoil, but something still moving at ~300yds.

I think the Tikka is a sound suggestion, better than the Savage, which is also a fine first bolt. The very first bolt I bought was either an '03 or 98k I forget which. Not exactly ideal first bolts, but maybe they are.

Keep in mind that it's your first, and there won't be a last. Best to just go with the gut and get shooting.
 
Posts: 31 | Location: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: July 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Of the choices you listed, the Vanguard 2 would be my pick. If you don't mind going off the list, the Tikka would be my first pick in that price range. I think the Tikka will outperform anything on your list.
 
Posts: 396 | Location: WV | Registered: May 30, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of arcwelder76
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For a first bolt then, I might suggest a Ruger American, in .223. I'm very happy with the 30.06 I recently cut down.


Arc.
______________________________

"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash

"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman

 
Posts: 23597 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of ruger357
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I'd go savage or tikka. Every savage I own is crazy accurate.


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Posts: 6092 | Location: Hoover, AL | Registered: November 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Raff661:
Thoughts on this...
7mm Remington Magnum Tikke T3...

Good gun. Wrong caliber.
- higher recoil, possibly a bit more than a 30-06, depending on the ammo
- higher ammo costs, as in $30-40 per box of 20. Even the most expensive 6.5 Creedmoor ammo looks attractive now.
- 7mm magnums don't make good short-distance target guns. However, with the right bullet, they work quite well from 1000 to 1800 yards.

Arc made a good suggestion with a 223 as your first rifle. A 243 is a decent option, too -- less recoil than a 6.5 Creedmoor.
 
Posts: 4842 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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