My wife is 95 lbs and 5'2". She's going to be a massive tactical liability when the next big earthquake puts 20 million people 3 meals away from civil unrest. I'm hoping to change that.
I have a 10/22 that I intend to have her practice on. My idea is to have her complete an Appleseed shoot early this year, then graduate her to a self-defense caliber carbine/rifle that she can use in a tactical class.
My requirements for her firearm is that it be:
2) Low recoil
3) Fast handling/easy pointing
4) Fed from a detachable 10-round magazine
6) No pistol grip, no flash suppressor (muzzle brake OK), no forward pistol grip,
Bonus Points for being classy/traditional looking to maintain a PC/unassuming threat profile. She's small, she's unassuming, would be nice to use that to her advantage.
Guns I have found that fit the above criteria (without actually handling any of the weapons) are:
1) Ruger PC Carbine in 9mm or .40 (all my handguns are currently standardized on .40, but will drop to a 9mm for recoil reasons if necessary).
2) Ruger Mini-14
3) Keltec SU-16CA
4) Kriss Vector CRB. This one doesn't really hit feature 6 and the bonus requirement, but can be made to work with a kydex wrap around the pistol grip. Intrigued because of the supposed low recoil system.
Let me know if I've missed anything for consideration. Thanks in advance for the discussion!
Benelli MR1. Came in a "standard rifle" configuration (had a second configuration with pistol grip, etc.), and was said to be quite comfortable to shoot. No longer made, so you'll have to look at GB.
Just my 2¢
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No on the Keltec. The PC carbine sounds like a winner to me.
I think a fancied up m1 carbine would fit the bill and the 10/22 can be set up nearly identical.
nicely blued and in a stock like this example from Dean restorations maybe....(I have no affiliation just found it on a image search).....
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or you can just look at the pictures if you like
I'd agree with this: more power than a Ruger PC.
Just as long as you get one that doesn't have a bayonet lug--IIRC that's also a banned feature under CA's AWB.
M1 carbine makes sense as the manual of arms will be very similar to your 10/22. You will be limited as to choice in optics, but a forward mounted red dot or scout rifle optic on a see-through rail (long-eye relief, low power magnification) will speed the target acquisition up.
Bonus points, as you said for the wooden stock.
Bolt a pic rail on there for a flash light mount, but leave the flash light off the rail unless imminently required for duty, just for the friendly neighborhood aesthetics
M1 Carbine now on my list. Pro's and cons over a mini-14? Looks like an M1 Carbine has more recoil than a similarly equipped AR-15 though.
Ammunition is generally more expensive (30+% per FMJ round) and harder to get compared to .223/5.56. If we're talking premium defense rounds, it's a wash between the two (about $1 per round for either).
As far as ballistic energy and penetration, the .223/5.56 is going to win.
In terms of logistics, it's going to be easier to find pouches for AR-sized mags than it is for .30 carbine mags. The magazine themselves will be less common though I don't believe it will make that much a difference. Probably be harder to find purpose-built pouches for the M1 Carbine than M1 carbine mags, unless you're willing to go with ye-olde-surplus-bandoleer or something like that.
It will be easier to accessorize the Mini-14, but since you're looking for a basic "farm-ish" rifle that might not be a consideration.
You are making a pretty good argument for the Mini-14.
Reports of large fireballs are a little concerning though.
An accustrut on the front could make it less ugly.
I can even get it cera-coated a pleasant color for the wifey.
Mini14 was the first thing that popped in my head from the thread title.
SU16 doesn't have a bad rep on KTOG. But I've never handled/shot one. IIRC, it uses AR mags. Which could be a plus.
CMR30 could be an option, if 22WMR is an ammo option.
The Enemy's gate is down.
|Jack of All Trades, |
Master of Nothing
A little outside the box, an FNAR? .308, 10 round magazine and even a California friendly blue/gray color scheme.
My daughter can deflate your daughter's soccer ball.
|Fighting the good fight|
Not in my experience. Recoil-wise, it will fall between a 9mm PC Carbine and .223 Mini-14.
Don't see any on gunbroker...
Other than the Vector, I think any on your list plus the M1 carbine would work. M1 carbine recoil is not an issue and soft point bullets have very good terminal performance in the caliber.
If I were setting a carbine up for my wife, I'd probably just take my M1 carbine, toss on an Ultimak rail, small RDS and single CR123 cell light and let that be hers.
“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik
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So....M1 Carbine. Replica new or military surplus?
|We gonna get some |
oojima in this house!
Ares SCR. Not wood but uses AR upper and magazines.
TCB all the time...
I like the M1, and surplus.
Just as thought exercise...., especially low profile long arms in California.
- Lever actions in .223 (Henry and Browning)
- Shotguns. Variety of useful loads including low recoil.
No matter where you go, there you are
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Following the above, Ruger (IIRC) had a 44Mag carbine.
Side load & tube fed, but more discrete than an AR/tactical type.
The Enemy's gate is down.
I'd hesitate to hand a 9lb 308 to a 95lb woman.
Either to carry around or to shoot, or both.
I think the M1 Carbine would fit the bill nicely.
Especially concerning weight.
|Fighting the good fight|
If you go with the M1 Carbine, both Speer Gold Dots and Hornady Critical Defense are available in .30 Carbine.
In addition, if she wants a red dot, you can put an Ultimak rail on the carbine for her. It doesn't require any permanent modifications.
As to surplus vs. new, it depends on your price range. If you only have ~$1000 to spend, you're better off getting a quality surplus carbine off somewhere like the CMP Forums, and replacing all the springs. If you have ~$1700 to spend, get a high-end new production carbine like a Fulton Armory.
Don't bother with cheaper commercial carbines like Auto-Ordnance, Universal, Iver Johnson, etc.
If you can't afford even the $1000 for a quality surplus USGI M1 Carbine, you can get something like a Ruger PC Carbine or Mini-14 for a bit cheaper.
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