I recently picked up a new AR and I'm trying to figure out what I want to do optics wise.

This is going to be my go to rifle and I would like idea's, discriptions', pictures of your go to AR.

My use is NOT HOME DEFENSE. I have pistols and a shotgun for inside the house. This rifle is for a true SHTF, on the road, active shooter in the neighborhood, hurricane, natural disaster, etc.

I have debated with myself going with the following options...

1. Aimpoint/EoTech and a fixed BUIS behind it.

Pros: Fast up close and irons ready to go if nessesary.

Cons: Target identification, speed in the 50-300 yard range.

2. ACOG (Larue quick detach) with Matech folded BUIS.

Pros: Fast in the 75-300 range. Decent target ID at range. BDC for M855 (62gr) which I have 2500 rounds.

Cons: Slow in the CQB range (TA01NSN has irons up top that might negate this weekness to a degree), must be removed if damaged to get to BUIS.

3. 1x4 Leupold/Night Force scope with Matech BUIS.

Pros: Decent CQB and adjustable to 4 power for target ID and distance shooting.

Cons: Cost, Weight, must be removed to get to irons, size.

What do you guys have and what do you think is best for a go to gun?

ACOG!
Being able to ID the target before pulling the trigger is extremely important for me. That said, the ACOG is not slow at CQB. I keep both eyes open and squeeze the trigger when the red spot is somewhere in the center of mass, exactly where is not important. Hard to miss man-size targets with a rifle at CQB.
BUIS? I think it is overrated. Show me a man with a broken ACOG and I'll show you a hundred men with more than one rifle.

quote:

That said, the ACOG is not slow at CQB. I keep both eyes open and squeeze the trigger when the red spot is somewhere in the center of mass, exactly where is not important.

That's true with a BAC, however, the TA01NSN with the irons doesn't have that capability.

quote:

Show me a man with a broken ACOG and I'll show you a hundred men with more than one rifle.

I don't understand? If your talking about a military situation where I have a team that's one thing. However, if my ACOG goes down in real life I'm alone or with my wife.

I'd go for the powered optic and worry less about having to remove the optic if it fails. Quick throw levers would be fine, at least for me. I'd go with number 2 or 3. I had an Eotech but would prefer something else over 100 yards. I currently use one of these on my 556 and would also use on the AR:

http://www.swfa.com/pc-9026-1206-weaver-15-45x24-classi...0mm-rifle-scope.aspx

inexpensive but not cheap - easy to use click adjustments, illuminated reticle etc. I also like the Nightforce, nice scope.

I use a surplus Israeli Defense Force 3x20 scope on my carry handle.

If you want to run with an ACOG, I really think you should go with a TA31 series, over the TA01-NSN. Otherwise, consider the TA33's as well as the TA11's. They have better eye relief then the 4x ACOGs. The OEG capability of the ACOG is also something to also consider. Also, you might also want to look at mounts. The TA51 that comes with ACOG's well need readjustments when removed. It won't hold zero.

If you can't swing it, I'd look at the Aimpoint Comp M4 and the T-1. Both of these are really nice and should be find out to 400m. A really good deal is the Comp C3 if you want to save even more. Then there's the H-1 which is also really good.

Lots of choices out there. Too many at times.

As a SHTF rifle, I would go with BUIS. Zombies aren't gonna wait for you to run to your safe and get the spare rifle.

Here's an interesting read BUT you have to consider what he's wanting. I think he's been using a TA11 more recently. ( http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=4209 )

I really feel like if I go with a fixed power optic it much have irons avaiable.

Also, as far as the a T-1 it's a 4 MOA dot right? If so thats way to big for me. At 100/4 inchs, 200/8 inches, 300/12inches, and 400/16 inches. I know that's ok for some people but for me it's too large and covers to much target. Depending on how much of the target is exposed at 100+ you may not even be able to see the target with a dot that large. At contact distances it's fine.

quote:

Originally posted by ILL DILL:
I don't understand? If your talking about a military situation where I have a team that's one thing. However, if my ACOG goes down in real life I'm alone or with my wife.

Sorry about the confusion. What I meant was, I don't need a back-up iron sight. I have back-up rifles. The reasoning is that there are a whole bunch of things other than the ACOG that can render a rifle inoperative.

This is my favorite back-up rifle:

So when the SHTF your going to carry a rifle and then another rifle in case your first one fails?

I'm most likley not going to do that. I think I'll have a rifle and a pistol and what ever else i need on a food/water/cash basis.

I need my primary rifle to work and if the optic goes down I'm going to take it off and use the BUIS.

quote:

Originally posted by ILL DILL:
I really feel like if I go with a fixed power optic it much have irons available.

Also, as far as the a T-1 it's a 4 MOA dot right? If so thats way to big for me. At 100/4 inchs, 200/8 inches, 300/12inches, and 400/16 inches. I know that's ok for some people but for me it's too large and covers to much target. Depending on how much of the target is exposed at 100+ you may not even be able to see the target with a dot that large. At contact distances it's fine.

With a QD mount, having irons on the optic is moot. Flip a lever and pull the BUIS up and you're back in the game. Forget about dealing with the TA51's thumbscrews. The irons on the TA01's are really high and parallax becomes more of an issue at greater distances.

4MOA isn't that bad. Although if you're engaging a target at 300m, are you going to be able to ID it first?

Comp M4 comes with a 2MOA if it's really really important you have a smaller dot. Larger unit, a bit heavier but really nice as well. Excellent battery life too.

I'm with you on a QD mount.

But, what about those situations where the "target" appears 20/50 feet away and it's moving? Then what do I do?

I don't see myself removing the scope and popping up the BUIS in that situation?

This is one of the reasons I think a 1x4 optic is great. I can keep it set on 1X for surprises and ramp it up if I see something in the distance that needs a closer look?

What do you think?

quote:

Originally posted by ILL DILL:
So when the SHTF your going to carry a rifle and then another rifle in case your first one fails?

I'm most likley not going to do that. I think I'll have a rifle and a pistol and what ever else i need on a food/water/cash basis.

I need my primary rifle to work and if the optic goes down I'm going to take it off and use the BUIS.

Yes, I am going to have more than one rifle. And more than one pistol. What are you planning to do if your rifle breaks down?

quote:

Yes, I am going to have more than one rifle. And more than one pistol. What are you planning to do if your rifle breaks down?

I just don't really see myself carrying my 72 hour bag, a primary rifle, a pistol, extra mags for each, and second rifle...

I might carry a second pistol, but another rifle and ammo??? No, I don't think that's possible. Stuff is heavy and another 10lbs rifle and ammo is alot to carry in an emergency situation.

I'm confident that my Colt 6920 and Glock's will hold up. If they break I'll have to make due.

quote:

Originally posted by ILL DILL:
I'm with you on a QD mount.

But, what about those situations where the "target" appears 20/50 feet away and it's moving? Then what do I do?

I don't see myself removing the scope and popping up the BUIS in that situation?

This is one of the reasons I think a 1x4 optic is great. I can keep it set on 1X for surprises and ramp it up if I see something in the distance that needs a closer look?

What do you think?

BAC and OEG with the ACOG, make it a non issue.

This is my set up. I fall into your #1 category. EOTech 512 with a A2 BUIS. I like the set up and have used it in training and qualification at my department. This is my only rifle so it is my SHTF/do all rifle. I am at a disadvantage at incresed distance with a lack of magnification but I have had success with the 512 at medium distances with your basic coke bottle targets. It's not a target set up but it's quick close in and accomplishes what I feel I need at medium distances, for my purposes.

Here is what I did:

Club,

Thats a good looking rifle. I have a 512 Rev. F as well. I like the small center dot for shooting at 100 yards but I still wish it had two things...

Better Battery life and magnification.

Before I sold it, I'd grabbed this one over anything else I had in the safe. I was set up for a reasonable distance, and still had my up close and personal with my dot.

If it were to fail... I'd ditch it, and go BUIS all the way.



One of these days... waaaaay down the road, I'll do that to this one as well.

I like both of those set ups Steve.

I wish I could find a used ACOG like that one you have for sale. I'm always scared to buy used anything from anyone I don't know.

If I go with the short range Aimpoint/Eotech set up I will put a rail and light on it as well.

Who knows, I might put a rail and a light on it either way.

I have a bad habit of throwing everything AND the kitchen sink on them. But heck... it's fun. It sure does weigh them down though.