The shotgun portion of my collection could stand some reinforcement. Since I would rather not go the tax stamp route but want something that keeps our favorite ninnies up at night, I am considering the two options listed.What say you?<BR><BR>Thanks in advance for any time spent.Keltec KS7 (more capacity, pump action)Remington Tac-13 (recoil absorbing semi-auto)

Neither. Kel-Tec is cheaply made and Remington these days isn’t what it used to be. I’d go with the mossberg shock wave if you must, great quality and it holds 1 more round in the tube than the Remington for being the same size.

Honestly I’d not get stuck on a short shotgun and just get a good combat length gun with a stock. The tac-14/shock wave are really just toys honestly.
If you get a Remington get an old one and put whatever parts and accessories you want on it, that’s what I did

What parts of the KS7 are cheaply made? Have you handled one? I haven’t yet, but I own a KSG. The action of the KSG is very smooth and extremely reliable. It’s my favorite shotgun. I’m very curious to hear what about it is cheap?

I prefer a stock to the shockwave grip, so i votes KS7.

I see almost very few complaints about Kel-tec shotties in terms of quality and dependability. Complaints about Remington QC abound. Regardless, I would choose a bullpup shotgun over a pistol shotgun any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Especially when the bullpup allows such short length while still being completely legal.

I wouldn't take a current production Remington firearm if you gave it to me.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
Honestly I’d not get stuck on a short shotgun and just get a good combat length gun with a stock.

+1

quote:

The tac-14/shock wave are really just toys honestly.

Really? I feel that I'm pretty good with my Shockwave. I don't feel like I must have my 500 at my bedside because it's "a better gun". Because right now it isn't, at least for me.

I agree about Remington's lack of QC. We had a TAC-14 that refused to lock the action forward when chambering. Field and defensive 870s that wouldn't expel the spent shells. One or two we sold that would only go 'click' and not 'BANG'. There was one that stopped going 'click' altogether though we didn't sell that one, only sending it back to Remington for the customer. Not so minor stuff like that.

Now that Cerberus Capital is gone they have a chance at redemption but it'll take significant time to recoup all of the expertise and knowledge that the antics of Cerberus (Freedom Group) jettisoned in their acquisitions of all elements in the Remington family of companies. When it came to guns Cerberus was a sorry joke though I'm sure they probably made serious bank on all of their slicing and dicing and shuffling around of assets and refinancing of debt. Because that's what evil profiteers and private equity firms generally do...make bank at the expense of once-healthy operations. At least the banks that now own Remington have been feeding them operating capital with the intent of making them healthy and worthwhile someday, preferably sooner than later.

As for Kel-Tec: the bad rap regarding their brand was once well-deserved. But I'm not so sure that it's still relevant these days. Standing apart, the KSG has been a solid quality product that frankly was a pleasant surprise given how marginal some of their past products have been (first gen SUB2000 anyone?). It's rare that anyone can complain about the build quality of a KSG (shooting quality is another matter, but that's generally on the user and not the gun itself). I've sold any number of KSGs to customers who've had glowing experiences with the gun; the only gripes have been with shooters who had never owned or shot a 12GA prior to buying the KSG who chose to buy it because "it's cool" and not before really finding out more about how it operates (or better yet, trying it with live fire first).

Kind of a no brainer, even though the Kel-Tec is a new-to-market product and I prefer waiting a spell to see if any skeletons get rattled out of the closet. I'd opt for the KS7 in this field of two.

Remington V3 and it’s variants all day every day.

My Remington V3 is a dream to shoot and reliable soft shot after soft shot. I love it.

All other Remington SA platforms will eventually go extinct as the V3 development and launch broadens and continues across their product line. It’s a whole lot of shotgun for the money.

Para and soggy,
I bought a Remington 870 DM at the end of last year. After a couple of hundred rounds of mixed shells and slugs, it is now almost as smooth as my 2004 870. No malfunctions either.
Granted, its a sample of just one. Maybe their QC is finally getting better or maybe I just got lucky.

quote:

Originally posted by xl_target:
Maybe their QC is finally getting better or maybe I just got lucky.

Remington has earned my disdain and I won't ever again purchase one of their firearms.

Oh look, Kel-Tec experts who have never actually touched a Kel-Tec

^^ Point taken, but I'd still rather have a Mossberg.

I have a gen 2 KSG and really like it. It is actually pretty rugged and solidly made. Now I want the KS7.

Well, I have a KSG, RFB and RDB and have fired a few others from Keltec. Might not be an expert, but have a "bit" of experience with them. I love my the Keltec products I have and wouldn't hesitate to recommend a KSG to someone. I haven't gotten my hands on a KS7 yet, so I can't particularly comment on that one (but I'm also not a fan of pistol gripped shotguns either).

Try to find examples to try prior to purchase and create an opinion after that. I won't be selling mine any time soon.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Oh look, Kel-Tec experts who have never actually touched a Kel-Tec

I’ve owned 3 kel-tecs.. 2 pf9’s only one worked. And it shot like shit, finish was absolute garbage and the trigger slap was pretty bad.
Then I got a sub 2000, it was also not all too reliable but it was a toy.
Any gun that is largely held together with screws and with a finish that is rivaled by spray paint is cheaply made.
I’m not saying kel-Tec doesn’t have some really great ideas and cool designs, because they do.
But the quality just isn’t there. Ive had plenty of shooting buddies that had kel-Tec guns and the ones that had the most problems were the guys that actually shot them regularly. Never heard of kel-tec not taking care of it, but for a defensive weapon it’s just not an option for me. If that makes me a picky gun snob then so be it. And btw I’d love to see a KSG with a smooth action, because every one I’ve played with at a gun store isn’t smooth in the slightest bit. (Not terrible, but not what I’d call smooth in the slightest)

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Oh look, Kel-Tec experts who have never actually touched a Kel-Tec

I’ve owned 3 kel-tecs.. 2 pf9’s only one worked. And it shot like shit, finish was absolute garbage and the trigger slap was pretty bad.
Then I got a sub 2000, it was also not all too reliable but it was a toy.
Any gun that is largely held together with screws and with a finish that is rivaled by spray paint is cheaply made.
I’m not saying kel-Tec doesn’t have some really great ideas and cool designs, because they do.
But the quality just isn’t there. Ive had plenty of shooting buddies that had kel-Tec guns and the ones that had the most problems were the guys that actually shot them regularly. Never heard of kel-tec not taking care of it, but for a defensive weapon it’s just not an option for me. If that makes me a picky gun snob then so be it. And btw I’d love to see a KSG with a smooth action, because every one I’ve played with at a gun store isn’t smooth in the slightest bit. (Not terrible, but not what I’d call smooth in the slightest)

OK, I apologize for my snarky remark.

I just traded in a P-32 not because it was a bad gun, I just wanted to go back up a bit in firepower to .380 with a Kahr CW380

I also have owned a PF-9 in the past and recall it was not pleasant to shoot, but it did shoot well.

My 9mm Sub2000 runs like a top, Russian steel ammo, American brass ammo, JHP's it eats them all.

It seems like with KT people either absolutely love them or absolutely hate them and there really is no in between with them.

The shotguns and rifles that KT makes do seem to be pretty interesting designs that you aren't seeing elsewhere.

I had a P-11. POS Jam O Matic. Only gun I've ever sold. I'd use a rock before a Kel Tec.

I’ve always said that if kel-tec guns were made by a different company with much better quality they’d make a killing. I’d pay more if it wasn’t cheaply made shit.
Look at ruger, the lcp is a blatant rip off of kel-tec, just made better and they sold tons of them. I’d buy a ksg knock off in a heart beat if somebody like mossberg ect. Made it.

Nothing screams quality like a bunch of plastic exterior pieces bolted together around the exterior of the gun (Keltec)

That company should have folded decades ago, but apparently suckers spend their money on the shit.

The Versamax is probably the best thing Remington makes these days. But the asking price is too high for the little gun. (less gun, more money?)