SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Mason's Rifle Room    Do (did) you shoot 300 Blackout at steel? If so …
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Do (did) you shoot 300 Blackout at steel? If so … Login/Join 
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted
What have been your experiences?

I’m mostly concerned about effects on hardened steel targets (damage) at close distances and safe standoff distances to avoid significant danger from fragments.
Do heavy subsonic bullets cause fewer problems?




“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.”
— The Wizard of Oz
 
Posts: 39598 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Charmingly unsophisticated
Picture of AllenInWV
posted Hide Post
Not sure if this helps but I shoot 220gr subs at AR500 steel at ~100m. No ill effects to me or the plate.


_______________________________

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose."
- Jim Elliot
 
Posts: 15234 | Location: Cross Lanes, WV | Registered: February 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
Picture of Chowser
posted Hide Post
I was shooting subs at steel plates at 75ft during a work training day with no issues.

I didn't try any supers on the plates but they worked fine on cars.



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 6091 | Location: South of Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The steel that I used at close distances was 10" and 12" plates of 3/8" AR500, swinging freely from a belt. Using a 11.3" barrel with a can.

I did not shoot any 110 grain ammo any closer than maybe 100 yards. Both Hornady AMax and Barnes Vortex did not damage the plates. The Amax produced very large paint chips on the plates, but the Vortex ammo only produced a small paint chip area -- the difference between a fragmenting lead round and a copper-based round.

I shot 123 grain Magtech 123 FMJ and 125 grain Hornady American Gunner HP down to about 20 yards. No dents in the steel targets and no fragments deflected back to me. I was really cautious here -- I would be a little concerned about straight-on to a fixed vertical plate at this distance.

I shot 150 grain FMJ 150 American Eagle down to about 15 yards. No dents in steel and no fragments back towards me. I feel a little more comfy with the 150 as a close round on steel than 123-125 grain.

I shot 200 grain Sellier & Bellot FMJ down to 8-9 yards. No dents in steel and no fragments back towards me. This was really close, and I probably wouldn't do this with a fixed vertical plate.

Somewhere I have notes for the velocity of when 223 lead HP ammo begins to put a small dent in my steel. IIRC somewhere below 2300 fps or 2400 fps and I won't ding steel. My Vmax muzzle velocity is 2395 fps, so I felt no need to try it up close. The 123-125 grain ammo has MV of 2180 fps or less, so I was OK in trying them up close. The 144-150 grain ammo has MVs of around 1900 fps.
 
Posts: 5924 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
Thanks for the replies, especially those details, fritz; just what I was seeking.




“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.”
— The Wizard of Oz
 
Posts: 39598 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of 2risky
posted Hide Post
I haven't shot the 300 but have shot a lot of steel with 5.56mm. Two different items going on here. One: the effect on the steel. Two: Safety.
Number number totally depends on the quality of the steel (ignore what the supplier tells you). I've shot quality steel (such as from MGM)as close as 25 yards (not recommended) with little or no damage to the steel. Other "rifle" rated steel has suffered deep craters or chips on the edges, which is problematic for continued short range use. Either back up or relegate it to pistol only use (I color code mine).

As for safety, they recommend a 100 yards. There are some things you can do for closer use. As mentioned, don't use dinged up targets. Use frangible ammo (for very close range). As mentioned above, don't use totally static targets but use those that give ground upon impact or that are angled so as to deflect rounds downward instead of back at you. Just be warned that I have been hit with bullet fragments. Not recommended for high powered rifles at close range.
 
Posts: 654 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: February 25, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
Thanks for your comments, 2risky. I have shot many different calibers at steel targets, from close to far, but never any 300 Blackout. The characteristics of that cartridge are different from 223/5.56 or even 6.5 Creedmoor, 308 Winchester, 12 gauge, or many handgun cartridges. Rather than risk my own targets (and my skin) I was looking for information from the people who have experience with 300 BLK, such as fritz.

I’m sure, however, that others will find your advice useful.




“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.”
— The Wizard of Oz
 
Posts: 39598 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 2risky:
As mentioned, don't use dinged up targets. Use frangible ammo (for very close range).

I am definitely careful in avoiding damage to my steel. But I do have a few small dimples in a few targets. The first dimple occurred when my brother-in-law used copper-solid hunting bullets from a 7 Remington Mag at around 300 yards. A small dimple, but I could feel it. I ixnayed steel core/tipped ammo from the beginning. Copper bullets were then crossed off my list.

In experiments with 223 at closer ranges, I found that with my 16" 223 AR, I had to stay beyond 60 yards with FGMM 77 to avoid dimples. I calculated this to be 2300 fps for the maximum bullet impact velocity on my 3/8" AR500. With lighter bullets in my AR, I knew the minimum distance would grow to over 100 yards.

I tried frangible ammo -- Fiocchi 45 grain sinterfire. Although the frangible ammo really reduced spalling effects, the Fiochhi's MV was 2945 fps. The frangible bullets were moving to fast that they left small dimples in my target from 15 yards to just under 50 yards -- the distances I tested. As a result, I eliminated frangible ammo from my list. Furthermore, the Fiocchi's accuracy just sucked.

One of the reasons I bought a 300blk upper was to be able to practice close-range shooting at steel with an AR-15 -- and not just with a 22lr upper. I searched the webz and found that I might still be on the ragged edge of 2300 fps MV with a 16" barrel. Barrels 12" and less seemed to have MVs under my 2300 fps threshold for 120-150 blackout ammo.

So I bucked up, bought a 11.3" upper, and bought an SBR tax stamp for one of my lowers. Voila -- I then had a center-fire-caliber AR15 that could shoot steel relatively close, as long as I used 123-150 grain ammo.
 
Posts: 5924 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
Although the frangible ammo really reduced spalling effects, the Fiochhi's MV was 2945 fps. The frangible bullets were moving to fast that they left small dimples in my target from 15 yards to just under 50 yards -- the distances I tested.


I believe that the Action Target company cautions that frangible isn’t enough to prevent damage to steel. At high enough velocity they will damage targets as well as you experienced.

An interesting target for use with full power 223/5.56 ammunition at less than 100 yards is one that’s an elliptical shape angled down at 45 degrees. Because of its shape it looks like a 12 inch circle at distance. It’s rated safe at 50 yards and I use it regularly for drills by officers who have access only to normal ammunition. The target itself is badly dinged up (but no deep craters) and the splatter is eating through the unhardened steel support post, but we have never experienced any splatter back to the shooters.




“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.”
— The Wizard of Oz
 
Posts: 39598 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of 2risky
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
Although the frangible ammo really reduced spalling effects, the Fiochhi's MV was 2945 fps. The frangible bullets were moving to fast that they left small dimples in my target from 15 yards to just under 50 yards -- the distances I tested.


I believe that the Action Target company cautions that frangible isn’t enough to prevent damage to steel. At high enough velocity they will damage targets as well as you experienced.

An interesting target for use with full power 223/5.56 ammunition at less than 100 yards is one that’s an elliptical shape angled down at 45 degrees. Because of its shape it looks like a 12 inch circle at distance. It’s rated safe at 50 yards and I use it regularly for drills by officers who have access only to normal ammunition. The target itself is badly dinged up (but no deep craters) and the splatter is eating through the unhardened steel support post, but we have never experienced any splatter back to the shooters.


You are both correct about the frangible ammo concerning damage to the target, but you won't get any blow back even at close range. Just note that not all frangible is the same. I was reloading some RRLP from Barnes that looked and functioned as an OTM round that worked fairly well at 50 yards, most of the time.

Depending on your plan, Law Enforcement Targets use to sell rubber pads that you could glue to the front of your steel pepper popper that would absorb most of the energy; No blow back, no damage to the target and it would still knock the target over and they would last a long time. We were using the PP to activate other paper targets. Not sure if they still sell them or if this would help you but you can shoot them at very close ranges.
 
Posts: 654 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: February 25, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I've shot thousands of frangible pulled M160 108gr bullets at AR500 steel out of my Blackouts. No damage to steel. Normally the steel is at 34yd (the distance of my club's plinking range). Of course, they are not going at .223 velocity, but in the 1000-1700fps Blackout velocity (subsonic suppressed and supersonic not suppressed).

I also shoot pulled 50gr frangible MK 311 MOD O 5.56 bullets at the same distance out of short bbls going in the 2400fps range with no damage. Out of 16" bbls they can get up in the 2700fps range and do leave a slight dimple at that distance, so they are not used out of the longer bbls.
 
Posts: 128 | Location: Florida | Registered: August 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
My own experiments have been delayed due to things like the weather, but I finally got to fire one shot of Fiocchi 124 grain FMJ 300 BLK at an AR500 plate from my 9" MCX. A smear of lead just like shooting it with 9mm, but nothing more.




“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.”
— The Wizard of Oz
 
Posts: 39598 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Mason's Rifle Room    Do (did) you shoot 300 Blackout at steel? If so …

© SIGforum 2019