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I vowed to get an AR10 in 2015, but life had other ideas. I've taken steps to get ready to buy one. I used to not like them as they were finicky, but technology has come a long way and they have been made to work right, and be very accurate. Larue changed my mind on the AR10 in 2008 I think. I want an AR10 that is mostly on the accuracy side, but also durable and made to last. Going to break em down here because there are so many good options and a ton of give and take. I don't want to build one. I have a SCAR 17 for a do it all type, so I'd like an AR-10 to be my main precision rifle.

1. KAC. I'm not sure the accuracy is there on the APC, and 4K minimum hurts. Bad.

2. Noveske N6 gen III. I've landed on this as the best compromise and currently planning to take this route. Lightly used at $3K would be my target. My understanding is very accurate, reliable, and super high quality.

3. Larue PredatOBR. I like I can get one under 3K used and seems to have the accuracy I want. Wouldn't mind having a barrel change system for 6.5 or 260 either. OBR would work for me too without the barrel change.

4. HK MR762. I like this option. Accuracy seems to be there. Problem is price and proprietary mags. I want to move towards SR25 mags.

5. Sig 716 DMR. Accuracy seems to be there. Handguard looks stupid and it's being discontinued? For the MCX Spear? Not sure. I like the Spear because it looks cool but no clue on accuracy/performance.

6. Rock River BT3 just popped up on my radar. I generally wouldn't consider them but I have a feeling this will shoot as tight as anything. I have an ATH that blows my mind everytime I shoot it. $1500 sounds dam good too. Want that gas block pinned though.

7. JP. Accuracy there for sure. High price and unsure of the durability/ reliability side.

8. LMT. Pretty solid option. First time I picked one up I was offended by the weight. There are lighter barrels now. A lot of good here. Precision seems to be there with the stainless barrels.

9. Armalite. This is a bad word to me. Had one. Never will again most likely.

10. LWRC. Super cool gun. I don't think the precision is there.

11. SCAR 20 actually got into consideration yesterday cause I have too much dam free time on my hands. Price hurts bad. Already have a SCAR so mags and stuff will work. I'd have to sell a lot of stuff to get there. Accuracy seems to be there, not as precise as I think the Noveske or Larue would be.

12. Barret Rec-10. I'm sure this is high quality. No clue on the accuracy.

13. Wilson Combat Recon Tactical. Pretty ignorant on this one. My impression is it will be accurate. Unsure of reliability.

So this is how I'm seeing the options. Hard to weed through 1st hand accounts due to bias, lack of experience, etc. I'm really settling on the Noveske. I like the Larue. I like the LMT. Any info appreciated. This isn't a small purchase for me so I'm spending a lot of time kicking around the options. For what it's worth I don't want to reload at this time. Thinking 16 inch barrel. 10lbs naked is about the max but anything less is great.


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Posts: 6056 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Res ipsa loquitur
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A lot of good options. I’ve been looking at LMT myself. LMT’s L129A1 is the British pattern rifle for their sharpshooters. The link to a good article about it and the civilian version (which is several hundred dollars cheaper). One thing from the article I thought interesting (important) is that the Brits wanted a rifle that could also reliably and accurately shoot standard Mil-spec ammo. I’d hate to spend all that $$$ for a rifle that is an ammo snob. At least one of your choices fell into that category according to the story.
https://www.americanrifleman.o.../18/britains-l129a1/


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Posts: 11047 | Registered: October 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Title should read deciding on a DPMS LR308/KAC SR25 platform,not AR-10 since the later is a bad word.

The ONLY AR-10 is an ArmaLite.
2 options
AR-10B M1A steel mags
AR-10A DPMS/KAC/PMags

The 1/2 dozen ArmaLites in my possession have functioned/shot well since the mid 90's.

Any 3-4K platform will NOT shoot 3-4 times better than a 1K platform.

It's not the arrow,it's the Indian!!


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Posts: 23 | Registered: March 23, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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How will it primarily be used?

Shooting holes in targets from a bench with a bipod? Carried on a sling while hunting hogs on foot? Static precision rifle courses? Active carbine courses?

Many of the older SR-25-style .308 ARs, while accurate, are unnecessarily bulky and therefore heavy. Think 10-12+ pounds. That's fine for poking holes in paper from a benchrest or bipod, but it wears on you when you try to use it like an AR-15 on a sling on foot.

There's a newer style of .308 AR that more closely mimics the size and weight of an AR-15, slimming the receivers back down to AR-15 dimensions in areas where the extra bulk isn't needed. These are generally referred to as "G2" or "Short Frame/SF", but every company uses different terminology. I believe DPMS originated the concept, but a number of other makers have jumped on the bandwagon too. These are closer to 7-8 pounds, with a couple being 6ish, so they're a better option if you want an AR in .308 that you can still be dynamic/active with, like when hunting on foot or attending AR rifle courses. (And they're also compatible with some standard AR-15 accessories, like grips and trigger groups, and some handguards.)
 
Posts: 24680 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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SCAR is my moving around gun. This will be precision based. Paper and steel I think will be 99% of it. Maybe some piggies. The smaller frame stuff is ok, but I haven't seen them produce the precision I'm after.

And I'm sure newer Armalites are fine. Stubbornly not going that direction. I think my top 3 choices are superior to Armalite.


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Posts: 6056 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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KAC's SR25 is quite accurate and very reliable. I have shot it, and I trained with Ranger sniper who used it in the sandbox. I believe the APC has a heavier profile barrel than the ACC, therefore the APC should be more accurate. The APC should be plenty accurate.

I've never shot a Noveske N6. I suspect it would be a fine rifle, based on the Noveske AR15s that I've shot.

Larue Pedator OBR. I recommend the regular OBR over the Predator version, if accuracy is your goal. The regular OBR is quite accurate and cycles without issues -- I've shot one with either an 18" or 20" barrel.

Never shot an HK MR762. I suspect their accuracy is decent, but not exceptional.

Never shot a Sig 716. Based on the 556 models I've shot, I suspect the 716's accuracy is OK, but not exceptional.

No experience with a Rock River AR10. I have a RR-based AR15 which is a great rifle. I've shot other people's RRs, and they have all been great rifles.

I shot a few rounds in a JP AR10 -- nice rifle and very accurate. JP rifles have tight chambers, which helps to make them very accurate. Some people see cycling issues for the first 50-100 rounds, then everything settles down. If accuracy is a primary goal, then JP is on the short list. JP rifles last.

LMT -- I have limited shooting here, but their rifles just work. They tend to be a little heavy, which IMO contributes to both their accuracy and reliability.

No experience with Armalite.

LWRC. I have an LWRC 556 piston upper. It's fine, but nothing special. Heavier than it needs to be, and LWRC doesn't seem to want to support the older models. My LWRC is very picky with ammo, which is something I didn't expect -- and am not all that thrilled about.

SCAR 20 is a different type of rifle than what you're leaning towards with other models. If you want a Larue Predator, then it's a SCAR 17. If you want a Larue OBR, then its a SCAR 20. I've shot the SCAR 16 and don't think it's all that accurate, especially as the barrel warms up. I have no experience with a SCAR 20.

The Barret Rec-10 should be a nice rifle, but I haven't shot it.

Wilson's AR10 will be reliable and really accurate. I have extensive experience with their AR15s and I know those who have shot their AR10. WC will be among the most accurate of the options.

I have a Black Rain Ordnance-based AR10, with uppers in both 6.5 Creedmoor and 6 Creedmoor. Very accurate, very reliable. Can't go wrong here. I know nothing of BRO's barrels -- my barrels are from Krieger and Bartlein.

GA Precision is almost certainly the most accurate AR10 you can find. Very tightly built -- not for deployment in the sand box. Keep it clean and lubed, and a GAP will shoot circles around almost everything else.

Daniel Defense. Haven't shot their AR10, but have shot a few AR15 models. Should be reliable and well built, but won't have the uber accuracy of some other brands.

DPMS SASS. Shot one owned by a Marine. Really a nice rifle, and completely reliable in wind-blown dusty conditions. Not as accurate as some of the other brands, but probably more accurate than most people can shoot.

Falkor Defense, originally SI Defense. My SI Defense-based AR15 is my most accurate AR15 at distance. Of course, its Krieger barrel helps. Falkor is rumored to have issues with their 6mm and 6.5mm bore AR10s, but makes really reliable and accurate 308 bore AR10s.

*****
Much depends upon what you want to do with the rifle.
If accuracy at distance is your primary goal, then stick to heavier rifles with longer barrels. Actually, consider getting a 6.5 Creedmoor, not a 308.

If you want to carry the rifle for long distances or want something light, then go with shorter & lighter barrel models. Understand that you will be giving up longer distance accuracy.
 
Posts: 6511 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by DansSIGs:
Title should read deciding on a DPMS LR308/KAC SR25 platform,not AR-10 since the later is a bad word.

The ONLY AR-10 is an ArmaLite.
2 options
AR-10B M1A steel mags
AR-10A DPMS/KAC/PMags

The 1/2 dozen ArmaLites in my possession have functioned/shot well since the mid 90's.

Any 3-4K platform will NOT shoot 3-4 times better than a 1K platform.

It's not the arrow,it's the Indian!!


You have enlightened me sir. I promise to forever change my ways. Cool


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Posts: 6056 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Only Armalite's lawyers and a few Armalite gun owners care about the use of "AR10" in a sentence. Most gun owners don't give a shit what the platform is called.
 
Posts: 6511 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I forgot to suggest a Christensen Arms carbon fiber MSR. https://christensenarms.com/msrs/
I have a friend who swears by them. I have a 300 WM that they rebarreled for me.

I have examined their AR-15s and they seem very well made and I really liked their handling based upon weight and design. CA is something of an outlier but you may want to consider them.


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Posts: 11047 | Registered: October 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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don't forget POF.

I have one of their AR15's and Their POF p308 Edge.

I am immensely happy with both.

https://pof-usa.com/firearms/p308-edge/




 
Posts: 5846 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Keep an eye out for Larue "assemble your own" sales. You can definitely get one for significantly less than you think. No, you won't actually have to get tools and "build" anything.
 
Posts: 24210 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Solid info Fritz. Not making my decision any easier though. I need to look into the Wilson Combat guns a little more. I respect the brand. The role I'm filling seems to be exactly what a KAC is assuming they are precise. I've seen conflicting stuff both ways over the years. But I figured the Noveske would iron all that out. Kinda be like a KAC for 1000 less.

The Larue would be the PredatOBR or OBR. The Predatar I'm not interested in. The TOBR has barrel change capability and slightly lighter than the OBR. An OBR would do the job. I've shot a few of them and they were what sold me on the AR10. Very precise guns. Navigating what's what with Larue is choppy waters though. Feels almost like a gamble.

The SCAR 20 appeals to me because it's a straight up combat sniper support weapon that doesn't leave the factory without 5 MOA groups. CHF CL barrel and compatible parts and mags with my 17. Most of these AR 10s are using Stainless barrels to get the accuracy. Not a big deal something to consider. Plus I would qualify to start wearing FN shirts and growing my beard, maybe even an FN sticker on my car.

Wilson and Barret need more homework this week.


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Posts: 6056 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by BB61:
I forgot to suggest a Christensen Arms carbon fiber MSR. https://christensenarms.com/msrs/
I have a friend who swears by them. I have a 300 WM that they rebarreled for me.

I have examined their AR-15s and they seem very well made and I really liked their handling based upon weight and design. CA is something of an outlier but you may want to consider them.


I looked at them a few years ago. Dam interesting rifles. They seem to be legit too. Seem to perform very well. I'm not sure it would be as durable but it's mainly just a question mark in mind.


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Posts: 6056 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Keep an eye out for Larue "assemble your own" sales. You can definitely get one for significantly less than you think. No, you won't actually have to get tools and "build" anything.


I've definitely looked at that. $1500 I think gets you a Larue with your choice of barrel. Hard to ignore that deal. They are keymod which I'd prefer to not have, and a google search will bring the quality of them into question. I'm not sure how much of that info is reliable. But one thing I will say is I want this rifle to be exactly what I want and money isn't the driving factor. After about $3300 I'm beginning to tap out, if I can get something for $2K that'd be great too.


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Posts: 6056 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I almost listed POF. I had one of their uppers and it was rock solid and nice. Accurate too. Of the 3-5 I've narrowed in on POF isn't one. It's a known entity to me and I like those rifles for my purposes better.


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Posts: 6056 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Slippery Pete:
I almost listed POF. I had one of their uppers and it was rock solid and nice. Accurate too. Of the 3-5 I've narrowed in on POF isn't one. It's a known entity to me and I like those rifles for my purposes better.


When I was looking, Christensen was Number two, Seekins was number 3. The reason I ended up with the P308 edge is a Retailer in Florida was retiring and selling everything stupid cheap on gunbroker. I could not pass it up
https://www.seekinsprecision.c...g-rifles/sp10-1.html

I have had an Arma-Lite Ar10T. fine rifle Finding mags under 50 bucks for it circa 2010 was a bitch.

I picked my p308 in 2018, If I had to do it again now. Likely would look long and hard at JP, I would pass on LWRC. (i prefer them pre 2015) Waiting for the Larue sale would not be a bad way to go.
 
Posts: 5846 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I did see the Seekins and it appears to be stupid accurate. I was considering going 6.5 for that. Kinda evolved in my thinking to stay 308. This is another one I think is being discontinued.

Back in 2015 when I was setting up to get my AR10 I had run across Seekins and Rainier RA10 I think which looked nice.

And you're right. JP is hard to ignore.


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Posts: 6056 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Slippery Pete:
The SCAR 20 appeals to me because it's a straight up combat sniper support weapon that doesn't leave the factory without 5 MOA groups. CHF CL barrel and compatible parts and mags with my 17. Most of these AR 10s are using Stainless barrels to get the accuracy.

I assume you left out the decimal point and meant .5 MOA instead of 5 MOA.
I'm not aware that the SCAR 20 was guaranteed for .5 MOA. I've seen 1 MOA for factory specs.

Understand the CHF barrels are not generally not up to the accuracy standards of button rifled barrels, and especially cut rifled barrels. CL barrels are definitely not know for accuracy. Furthermore, when the CL begins to chip loose from the throat, accuracy takes an immediate and noticeable dump. I saw and interview with Frank Green of Bartlein barrels, where he stated CL can begin deteriorating on 308 barrels in just a couple hundred rounds.

Yes, I've seen the internet reports of SCAR 20s obtaining sub-MOA groups. But rarely at longer distances. Nothing long term, either.

It's pretty well known that CHF and CL will increase barrel life. Assuming the shooter is willing to deal with reduced accuracy for those additional rounds. I have a bolt action 308 with a Bartlein SS cut rifled barrel. The barrel has not been babied at all, and has regularly become quite hot to the touch. I believe it's getting close to 6k rounds now. It just shot bughole groups with FGMM at 100 yards and held less than 1/2 MOA vertical at 500 yards.

How many rounds per year do you expect to shoot through your AR10? Have you ever shot out a barrel? I think the whole barrel life internet wrangling is overblown. For competitors who shoot out a barrel every year or two, barrel life and caliber choice have meaning. For most shooters it's not an issue.

******
BTW there's no way a 308 can hang with a 6.5 Creedmoor for accuracy. Anyone who says different just doesn't have precision shooting experience with similar rifles of both calibers. The 6.5CM has better bullets for the weight, shoots flatter, bucks wind better, has less recoil. The only downside to 6.5CM is reduced barrel life.
 
Posts: 6511 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Slippery Pete:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BB61:

I looked at them [Christensen] a few years ago. Dam interesting rifles. They seem to be legit too. Seem to perform very well. I'm not sure it would be as durable but it's mainly just a question mark in mind.


^^^
You raise an interesting question. If I were being sent to Afghanistan or Iraq, would I take one over a LMT? Probably not; just because I don’t know how the carbon fiber wrapped barrel will hold up to military service. That being said, my friend (quite wealthy which is germaine) can buy whatever he shoots and hunts with. He hasn’t had any problems with his rifles over the years I have known him. Anecdotal and all that but still, I doubt big game hunters would invest the $$$ in something that wouldn’t be holding up and they make a lot of big game guns too. For a paper shooter, I think you would be fine. But if you really want accuracy and aren’t sure about Christensen or any of the others, how about a Krieger barrel as part of a build? https://direct.kriegerbarrels.com/


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Posts: 11047 | Registered: October 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
quote:
Originally posted by Slippery Pete:
The SCAR 20 appeals to me because it's a straight up combat sniper support weapon that doesn't leave the factory without 5 MOA groups. CHF CL barrel and compatible parts and mags with my 17. Most of these AR 10s are using Stainless barrels to get the accuracy.

I assume you left out the decimal point and meant .5 MOA instead of 5 MOA.
I'm not aware that the SCAR 20 was guaranteed for .5 MOA. I've seen 1 MOA for factory specs.

Understand the CHF barrels are not generally not up to the accuracy standards of button rifled barrels, and especially cut rifled barrels. CL barrels are definitely not know for accuracy. Furthermore, when the CL begins to chip loose from the throat, accuracy takes an immediate and noticeable dump. I saw and interview with Frank Green of Bartlein barrels, where he stated CL can begin deteriorating on 308 barrels in just a couple hundred rounds.

Yes, I've seen the internet reports of SCAR 20s obtaining sub-MOA groups. But rarely at longer distances. Nothing long term, either.

It's pretty well known that CHF and CL will increase barrel life. Assuming the shooter is willing to deal with reduced accuracy for those additional rounds. I have a bolt action 308 with a Bartlein SS cut rifled barrel. The barrel has not been babied at all, and has regularly become quite hot to the touch. I believe it's getting close to 6k rounds now. It just shot bughole groups with FGMM at 100 yards and held less than 1/2 MOA vertical at 500 yards.

How many rounds per year do you expect to shoot through your AR10? Have you ever shot out a barrel? I think the whole barrel life internet wrangling is overblown. For competitors who shoot out a barrel every year or two, barrel life and caliber choice have meaning. For most shooters it's not an issue.

******
BTW there's no way a 308 can hang with a 6.5 Creedmoor for accuracy. Anyone who says different just doesn't have precision shooting experience with similar rifles of both calibers. The 6.5CM has better bullets for the weight, shoots flatter, bucks wind better, has less recoil. The only downside to 6.5CM is reduced barrel life.


That was unclear. 5 - 1 MOA groups.

I understand CL and CHF are generally less accurate. However FN produced CHF CL barrels seem to buck the trend a little bit. And to have a more durable barrel in theory is a consideration. Chrome lining chipping out is not something I'd considered. Until the FN I had assumed this rifle would not be CL. FN uses the double thick chrome on these SCAR barrels if I'm not mistaken too. I was readying and the REC-10 has CL.

I generally shoot precision rifle 30-50 rounds per week in my normal schedule and when I can get out to nature that goes up. Not tons but what I can make work. I'm not more concerned with barrel life than getting a precise barrel on this rifle, but if the scales leaned towards it that's just a bonus. One reason I went back towards 308. I fully understand 6.5 outperforms 308. The year of the 6.5 for me is still in the future.

I've shot out some 5.56 barrels in my youth. Never on a bolt gun or any 308 I can bring to mind.

I was listening to that Hide podcast with Frank Green the other day. Had to quit early cause the kids were annoying me. Dam virus. I had one of his barrels. Phenominal.

One point for the Larue predatOBR is I could make my way into the future with a 260 barrel or 6.5 creedmore barrel. I like the idea. LMT offers the same thing, as well as the SCAR 20. I decided it's not mandatory though.


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