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quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
As for the F-openers, they are mostly all 7mm now. Especially at long range.


Ya, I know. When I first heard about the A-Tips surprised Hornady didn't come out with a 7MM initially, go after the Berger 180 Hybrid. I guess they're thinking about their calibers, 6.5CM, 6.5PRC, 300PRC. Loaded ammo soon to come?
 
Posts: 2642 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by NikonUser:
The videos, although long, were quite informative.

I was going to buy a box of the 230s and try them out at around 2500FPS to see if I could get them to work.

However, everywhere I look, the 30 cal 230 are not available.


https://www.midsouthshooterssu...-tip-match-100-count
 
Posts: 2642 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
As for the F-openers, they are mostly all 7mm now. Especially at long range.


Ya, I know. When I first heard about the A-Tips surprised Hornady didn't come out with a 7MM initially, go after the Berger 180 Hybrid. I guess they're thinking about their calibers, 6.5CM, 6.5PRC, 300PRC. Loaded ammo soon to come?


Well, the long (17 minutes) video says the bullets are handload only, no ammo seems to be planned for those bullets. They made a VERY BIG DEAL of the sequencing of the bullets and how each box is made up of bullets that are made consecutively on the same machine and the fact they don't handle the bullet at all. They don't ever wash them or tumble them. They supply a cloth bag in each box for the handloader to polish the bullets.

I should think that if they were to load ammo with these bullets, they would lose all that (non)processing and sequentiality (if that's even a word,) big marketing items.

It seems they are going after the PRS crowd which seems to eschew the 7mm for some reason.

I just ran some numbers comparing the 210 and the 230 A-Tip and I can't find any A-Tips anywhere.
 
Posts: 2993 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
The videos, although long, were quite informative.

I was going to buy a box of the 230s and try them out at around 2500FPS to see if I could get them to work.

However, everywhere I look, the 30 cal 230 are not available.


https://www.midsouthshooterssu...-tip-match-100-count


Curse you.

I submitted an order just now. Smile
 
Posts: 2993 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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And now back to a not-quite-so-long-range moment.

My original 18" Wilson Combat barrel crapped out on me a couple months ago, on the second day of a 2-gun (bolt action & carbine) match. Velocity decreased a bit, POI shifted down noticeably, and accuracy beyond 300 yards went south. I definitely lost some match points on the final three stages. Being stubborn, I spent the next couple of weekends trying to determine just how bad the barrel was. Interestingly, the barrel still shot a little better than 1 MOA at 100 yards. Offgrid kept stating "dump it, dude", but it took me a couple hundred more rounds to give in. The barrel gave my about 4500 rounds and did quite well in a number of competitions. In the last thousand rounds of its life, the barrel tended to need more cleaning, mainly due to a carbon ring building up just forward of the chamber.

I splurged and purchased a Bartlein 18" 1/7.7 chambered by Craddock Precision. My local 'smith installed it a few weeks ago. I now have 100 rounds through it. Initial thoughts on my first Bartlein AR barrel:
- Absolutely no evidence of copper fouling during break in. I stopped the shoot-then-clean process after 20 rounds, with 5 or 6 bore cleanings.

- Carbon fouling decreased noticeably over the first day, which was 50 rounds. Amazingly little carbon fouling from the second day, which was also 50 rounds. I did not clean the bore during the second day.
- Muzzle velocity is currently about 20 fps slower than the previous Wilson barrel, with the same 4 factory loads. I will test MV again at maybe 200 total rounds, when I expect the barrel's MV will stabilize.

- 5-round groups at 100-yard accuracy wasn't anything to write home about on the first day. Maybe it just wasn't a good day for me.

- Accuracy on the second day was better, even with a Magnetospeed hanging off the suppressor. There was definitely a POI shift from the Magnetospeed. Maybe it was a better day for me. All groups with Hornady 75 HPBT and 73 ELD were under an inch. FGMM 69 was the star of the day, with groups of .44" and .69". All in all, accuracy so far is maybe .1" to .2" better with the Bartlein.

Next up is seeing how the barrel holds vertical at longer distances. Assuming I get lucky enough with the weather. Rain and thunder out on the open prairie hasn't been so fun during these spring weekends.
 
Posts: 6111 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Third day on the new 18" Bartlein AR barrel. Probably not my best day for shooting groups, but the Hornady 75s did produce groups of .66" and .91" at 100 yards. Hornady 73 was mediocre, with groups over an inch. So...Hornady 75 is the match ammo and for this barrel, FGMM 69 the backup. Interestingly, this is the same ammo preference for the 18" Wilson that it replaced.

Between storms I tried the H-75s at distance, six targets from 340 to 693 yards. The rifle held vertical well at all elevations -- even the long targets of 588 and 693 yards. I don't think the Bartlein is any magic step-up in quality from the previous Wilson Combat, but it is a good barrel. With just short of 200 rounds down range, I should check muzzle velocity again. I think the barrel has sped up slightly, as the POI was a little higher than expected on targets past 500 yards.

So far I'm pleased with the Bartlein barrel, but my limited experience with it so far tells me that the Wilson Combat barrel produces very good accuracy at a noticeably lower price.
 
Posts: 6111 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I decided to pull barrel #2 for the 6.5 Creedmoor. I was hoping to get through one more match, but it's time. I don't need a barrel to die in the middle of a match, which already occurred this year with my AR-15. Barrel #3 will be another 26" Bartlein.

Final round count for the Bartlein #2 was 2,924 rounds. I pulled Bartlein #1 at 3,236 rounds. Barrel #2 went from producing 3/8" groups to 1/2" or 5/8" groups in 150 rounds. Muzzle velocity is still hanging in there. Well, except for the ammo lot that I used at the Wyoming ELR match, but that's another issue -- one that I'm trying to work through with the ammo manufacturer.

It will be nip and tuck getting my 6.5 back in time for the next match, so I played with the 308 as a backup plan. I had almost forgotten how much more a 308 recoils than a 6.5. I didn't see any of my own trace yesterday, and humidity & light was good enough that I should have a least a few. Keeping the reticle on target was a challenge, especially after spending a fair amount of time behind an AR-15.

I tested an older lot of Corbon 155 Scenar, which is an accurate round that shoots pretty flat. I had a boatload of issues working targets from 340 out to 693 yards. Rats. Recoil was surprisingly sharp.

So I shifted to an old lot of Hornady 168 ZMax -- yep, the old green-tip Zombie ammo. It shot decent groups at 100, and was a pleasure to work targets of 340-693 yards. The recoil seemed noticeably more manageable than that from the Corbon. I think I have just enough rounds H-168 to get through the next match. Not ideal, and it pretty much guarantees mediocre results against the 6mm and 6.5mm guys, but it will work for plan B.

My 308 barrel is also getting long in the tooth, with 5,026 rounds down range. I may just keep shooting it in practice to see when it goes south. Muzzle velocity is still great. Accuracy may be deteriorating a bit, as my groups with FGMM 175 weren't great. However, accuracy with Hornady 168 and Corbor 155 were good. It's quite possible the nut behind the butt was a little loose....
 
Posts: 6111 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I just picked up my 6BRA build last Thursday. It was supposed to be finished much earlier but I had a mishap with Manners and had to get a replacement stock. My new NF 7-35 MIL-XT will be here in a couple days. I've been relegated to shooting my 6.5 Creemoor all season. First world problems.
 
Posts: 1809 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
The videos, although long, were quite informative.

I was going to buy a box of the 230s and try them out at around 2500FPS to see if I could get them to work.

However, everywhere I look, the 30 cal 230 are not available.


https://www.midsouthshooterssu...-tip-match-100-count


Curse you.

I submitted an order just now. Smile


I just received the Hornady .308 230 A-Tip bullets today. I must say, they took my breath away. They came packaged in two trays and with the polishing bag. I looked at one of them closely and it is magnificent. I am now thinking of loading these for a small ladder test to establish a credible load and see what kind of MV. If I can get close to 2500FPS out of my 34 inch barrel, I think we're in business. I get 2600FPS with 210s.

The ballistics programs show the 230 coming in at mach 1.4 at 1000, vs Mach 1.3 for the 210s; elevation is about the same with .3 MOA less for the 230s (good) and it also shows a reduction of windage from 7.3MOA to 6.0 MOA at 1000 in a 10MPH crosswind. That is HUGE! That's 13 inches at 1000. The bigger than the size of the 10-ring on the target.

I have to make these bullets work.
 
Posts: 2993 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by NikonUser:
...it also shows a reduction of windage from 7.3MOA to 6.0 MOA at 1000 in a 10MPH crosswind. That is HUGE! That's 13 inches at 1000. The bigger than the size of the 10-ring on the target.

I hope the bullets work for you, as that's a significant wind improvement.
 
Posts: 6111 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here are a few pictures of the bullets. In one I show the Hornady .308 230 A-Tip alongside my current match bullet, the JLK .308 210 LBT.

The other picture shows the packaging from Hornady for the 230 A-Tip.

http://img.gg/ANnr5a7

ETA: I added a thris picture with the A-tip230, the JLK210 and a typical 175gr BTHP for comparison.
 
Posts: 2993 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yesterday shot with my buddy who has the 6.5PRC. 153 grain A-tips shot well at 500yds, furthest we can easily put up paper. BC tracked perfect out to 1135yds, velocity 3070. We'll see how he and his A-tips do this weekend at the Raton Magnum match, 800-2000yds.
 
Posts: 2642 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by swage:
I just picked up my 6BRA build last Thursday. It was supposed to be finished much earlier but I had a mishap with Manners and had to get a replacement stock. My new NF 7-35 MIL-XT will be here in a couple days. I've been relegated to shooting my 6.5 Creemoor all season. First world problems.


Bullet you plan on shooting? Handful of 6BRA's around me shooting different bullets....know all their loads. My two 6BRA's shoot extremely well with 105 Hunting VLD's and 105 Hybrids/4895/CCI450.
 
Posts: 2642 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by offgrid:
Yesterday shot with my buddy who has the 6.5PRC. 153 grain A-tips shot well at 500yds, furthest we can easily put up paper. BC tracked perfect out to 1135yds, velocity 3070. We'll see how he and his A-tips do this weekend at the Raton Magnum match, 800-2000yds.


Good to know the BC tracks for your buddy. This makes the awesome BC of the 230 A-tip a veritable object of desire. I'm on a quest.

I can't get my hands of a reliable load for the 230 in a .308 Win, so I'll just have to make stuff up.
 
Posts: 2993 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
quote:
Originally posted by swage:
I just picked up my 6BRA build last Thursday. It was supposed to be finished much earlier but I had a mishap with Manners and had to get a replacement stock. My new NF 7-35 MIL-XT will be here in a couple days. I've been relegated to shooting my 6.5 Creemoor all season. First world problems.


Bullet you plan on shooting? Handful of 6BRA's around me shooting different bullets....know all their loads. My two 6BRA's shoot extremely well with 105 Hunting VLD's and 105 Hybrids/4895/CCI450.


105 Berger Hybrid/4895/FGMM SRP/
30.4 gr seems to be the sweet spot shooting around 2920 in my buddies rifle built by the same smith.
What freebore are you running? My chamber was cut with .110 freebore. I've read some of the benchrest guys are running .104. Curious as to what others are using.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: swage,
 
Posts: 1809 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by swage:
quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
quote:
Originally posted by swage:
I just picked up my 6BRA build last Thursday. It was supposed to be finished much earlier but I had a mishap with Manners and had to get a replacement stock. My new NF 7-35 MIL-XT will be here in a couple days. I've been relegated to shooting my 6.5 Creemoor all season. First world problems.


Bullet you plan on shooting? Handful of 6BRA's around me shooting different bullets....know all their loads. My two 6BRA's shoot extremely well with 105 Hunting VLD's and 105 Hybrids/4895/CCI450.


105 Berger Hybrid/4895/FGMM SRP/
30.4 gr seems to be the sweet spot shooting around 2920 in my buddies rifle built by the same smith.
What freebore are you running? My chamber was cut with .110 freebore. I've read some of the benchrest guys are running .104. Curious as to what others are using.


FB .084.

For Varget add .6 grains to their 4895 load. That simple!
 
Posts: 2642 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Weds shot at a range I've only been to 3 times. Weds the mirage was thick. Impacted about 3" inches high at 500yds, rounds on paper. Target was presenting itself higher. Cloud cover rolled in, target nice and crisp, dope perfect. Dealt with this in the past, have a decent understanding what's happening. Know enough not to blame my dope..... Predicting how much the mirage will effect my point of aim/point of impact, that's the Fun Stuff!

A good video showing the effects over a period of time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...cpM&feature=youtu.be
 
Posts: 2642 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I received my NF 7-35 MIL XT on Tuesday and have it mounted to the new 6BRA build. I love the NF 7-35 and the MIL XT is my favorite reticle to date. Going to spend tomorrow evening loading up the first 100 rounds to be fire formed. Kind of getting a late start on the season due to set backs on the new build. That's how the game goes when dealing with a rifle built on custom components. Hoping the 6BRA lives up to the hype.
 
Posts: 1809 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm now on my third Bartlein 6.5 barrel. Done more muzzle velocity testing than with previous barrels, as I have one lot of ammo that's a good 100 fps slower than the normal ammo I've been buying. After some discussions and pictures of MV readouts, I received an RMR -- so they can re-test MV and pressure levels of various lots.

Barrel #3 was a little slower than #2 when I tested MVs at rounds #55 through #115. Today' MV tests were at rounds #325 through #360. Interestingly, the various lots increased in MV by 40 to 70 fps, making barrel #3 maybe 20-40 fps faster than barrel #2.

Accuracy at 100 yards was pretty good -- even with the Magnetospeed and 15 mph cross winds. Winds were enough to noticeably move the gun, the Magnetospeed bayonet, and me. I was essentially shooting 5-round dot drills for MV -- 31 of 35 rounds landed in the 1" dots. Groups ranged from .24" to .74". So far, I like this barrel.
 
Posts: 6111 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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jelrod1 spun me up another 6BRA barrel. Bartlein heavy palma, 8 twist, 26". Silly accurate, so easy! I wanted to work up a load on this barrel, pull it off, put in safe until one of the other 6BRA barrels die, have it ready.... My other two 6BRA barrels have 1800 and 2300rds on them, both still shooting great. Maybe get 3000rds?

Some initial load work up at 100yds


5 shots 500yds. 30/4895/105HVLD/CCI450/2930fps


How shot the above. Been using the Ckye-Pod bipod for awhile now. Very much liking it, sold all my Atlas bipods!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: offgrid,
 
Posts: 2642 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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