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Picture of swage
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quote:
Originally posted by buddy357:
So far with a modded pmag, an aics and an accurate mag (dssf). No vertical play. Going to have to find out if I got the wrong model somehow, that had not crossed my mind. Thanks offgrid.


I have an MPA chassis with a Defiance Deviant. My buddy runs an MPA with a Bighorn TL3. MPA stopped making action specific models last year. The only difference was the cutout for the ejection port. Both work well with the Pmag AICS magazines. I still find that I get magazine tilt at times which causes the round to nose dive if any pressure is put on the magazine at all. When shooting barriers it's going to happen so I have a Manners PRS1 on the way with a Gen 2 mini chassis. The MPA will be moved over the the Vudoo 22 LR.
 
Posts: 1723 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a question about calibers:

If I am correct, it seems that 6.5 Creedmore has been the choice over .308, for a few years. Rifle and ammo availability seems good.
I hear a bit about 6mm Creedmore being "the new hotness". I see Ruger has offered their Precision Rifle in the new caliber. Ammo availability doesn't seem to be as good as .308 or 6.5 Creedmore, yet.

My question is this:. If you were looking to upgrade from .308 *about a year from now* which caliber would you be looking at? 6mm Creedmore, 6.5 Creedmore, or something else?

Bruce




"I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
-Abraham Lincoln

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
-PJ O'Rourke
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Posts: 2900 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of swage
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I've heard that Hornady is going to offer factory 6CM ammo this year. I have no idea what the street price per box is going to be. Most who shoot it hand load. You gain about 150-200 fps depending on how fast you want to push it over the 6.5CM. That equates into a flatter shooting round. It also means you're going to shoot out the barrel in under 2000 rounds. If you hand load and like a hot rod, go for the 6CM. If you dont hand load and want a wide variety of factory ammunition, buy the 6.5CM. I own both and I'm now switching to a 6BRA because of how quickly I shoot out the barrel on the 6CM.

Hope this helps.
 
Posts: 1723 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wow, 2000 rounds for barrel life?! That sounds like a pretty expensive habit.

Even with better ammo availability a year from now on the 6mm, the 6.5 sounds like a more practical choice. Although, I guess it's practical in the same way that racing a Ferrari is more practical than racing a Mclaren. Wink

I am gathering gear to start hand loading. I'm pretty close to getting started.

Any differences in hand loading, between the calibers? Is one easier or harder to get right and get dialed in? I definitely wouldn't want to waste too many of those 2000 rounds on load development!

Bruce




"I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
-Abraham Lincoln

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
-PJ O'Rourke
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Posts: 2900 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by swage:
I've heard that Hornady is going to offer factory 6CM ammo this year. I have no idea what the street price per box is going to be. Most who shoot it hand load. You gain about 150-200 fps depending on how fast you want to push it over the 6.5CM. That equates into a flatter shooting round. It also means you're going to shoot out the barrel in under 2000 rounds.

Hornady has two 6CM match rounds on the market now -- 108 ELD and 105 BTHP. I've seen both in the field. Hornady also has a 103 hunting and 87 varmint load. Figure $1.00 a round for the 105 and $1.20 a round for the 108. I've seen roughly an equal mix of factory and hand loads in matches.

Yep, 2000 rounds from a barrel seems to be common in tactical/steel/PRS shooting. I've heard as low as 1500 rounds for guys who are really cranking fast PRS stages to 2400 rounds for guys with slower-paced shooting. It's definitely a flatter round than 6.5CM.

As yes, guys here have progressed to 6 Dasher for barrel life, and next year many of them will have progressed to 6BRA for even more barrel life.

****
Bruce -- 6CM has noticeably less recoil than 6.5CM, which means a lot in positional shooting. And yes, barrel life is the tradeoff for high MV and flat trajectory. I think many of the 6CM tactical shooters have barrel sponsors or are gunsmiths. A dedicated competitor will need a new barrel every season. Maybe two barrels per season.

I got 3200 rounds of factory Hornady down my first 6.5CM barrel before pulling it. It probably could have gone to 3500 rounds, but my next competition was an ELR match -- I didn't want a potentially wonky barrel while taking 1/3 of my shots at distances beyond 1000 yards.

Note that the above round counts for pulling barrels is almost certainly lower than what the average square-range bench shooter would obtain. Tactical shooting is hard on barrels and the accuracy requirements are likely noticeably higher than what the average shooter can produce.

I shoot factory ammo, but I've heard the 6.5CM is a little easier to hand load for than the 6CM. You'll find the 6CM wears lands faster and wears the throat faster. For some shooters and barrels, this means chasing the lands (loading the round to a longer length) and increasing the powder charge to maintain muzzle velocity over the practical life of the barrel. For the factory ammo users, we want bullets that tolerate increasing jump to the lands without losing accuracy. Hornady's 140 AMax and 140 ELD-M did tolerate jump in my first Bartlein barrel. My 'smith stated that I "must have shot the shit out of the barrel", because the throat looked like crap and there was a long jump before the bullet engaged the lands.

Off and on I have considered a 6CM AR-10 upper, but only for two specific team matches per year. Just like a hot-chambered ELR rifle, such rifles wouldn't be a person's daily shooter or training rifle.
 
Posts: 5642 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks, Fritz. I was hoping you would be along. I'm always happy to hear what your take is.
The thing that really got me thinking about 6mm Creedmore is that I saw Ruger Precision Rifles for $849 in that caliber as opposed to $1099 in 6.5 CM and .308.
That price might take a tiny bit of the sting out of being an early adopter.

I will do some more research.

Bruce




"I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
-Abraham Lincoln

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
-PJ O'Rourke
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Posts: 2900 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
I have a question about calibers:

If I am correct, it seems that 6.5 Creedmore has been the choice over .308, for a few years. Rifle and ammo availability seems good.
I hear a bit about 6mm Creedmore being "the new hotness". I see Ruger has offered their Precision Rifle in the new caliber. Ammo availability doesn't seem to be as good as .308 or 6.5 Creedmore, yet.

My question is this:. If you were looking to upgrade from .308 *about a year from now* which caliber would you be looking at? 6mm Creedmore, 6.5 Creedmore, or something else?

Bruce


What rifle do you have now?
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by swage:

I'm now switching to a 6BRA



After shooting out 9 Dasher barrels having two 6BRA barrels chambered. Timing is right, my Dasher brass is shot, need new brass.... Reason for the switch is simply barrel life. Don't expect any accuracy difference. Good friend has 2700rds on his 6BRA, load hasn't changed, still shooting great.
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My 6mm Creedmoor now has 1500 rounds through its Brux barrel, and the throat has moved forward .060" However, it is still shooting acceptably well. I had hoped for 2000 rounds, but clearly, I'm not going to make it. Shooting has been in typical matches, and I've not abused it with long strings of rapid fire, etc. I've exclusively used the Berger 105 gr. hybrid bullet, with 42 gr. of H4350.
 
Posts: 12 | Location: Wooster, Ohio | Registered: December 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
The thing that really got me thinking about 6mm Creedmore is that I saw Ruger Precision Rifles for $849 in that caliber as opposed to $1099 in 6.5 CM and .308.
That price might take a tiny bit of the sting out of being an early adopter.

Think of what you will use the rifle for and how much you will shoot it. The 6CM will consume barrels faster -- that means greater barrel investment, including cutting the chamber and installation. If you aren't capable of doing both, the total cost of ownership will soon be greater with the 6CM. Furthermore, 6CM factory ammo has less variety and tends to cost a little more than 6.5CM.

And you technically wouldn't be an early adopter in 6CM. It's been used in PRS-type competitions for a few years now. The first 6 Creedmoors were likely made shortly after 6.5 Creedmoor hit the market.
 
Posts: 5642 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Offgrid-

I am shooting a Remington 700 5R in .308.
Long range is a new game for me but I can see that it will be something that I want to pursue.
I have access to a range that I can shoot 1000 yards as well as quite a bit of desert.

Bruce




"I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
-Abraham Lincoln

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
-PJ O'Rourke
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Posts: 2900 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bruce,

some food for thought.

Consider putting the money into changing/building on your R700, true the action, have a quality barrel chambered in a different caliber. Yes, toss the current barrel or use it as a tomato stake! I strongly believe building off what you have will give you a more capable rifle. Several Ruger's around me, no contest between your action/quality barrel and a Ruger.

If you are going to reload, opens the door to other calibers. In the 6.5's, 6.5x47 is a sweety. Silly easy to tune, inherently accurate.... I've had both the 6.5CM and 6.5x47, easy choice for me as a reloader.

Have you changed your stock on the 5R?
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I haven't changed anything on the rifle except installing a Timney trigger (after I took it to Boomershoot in Idaho and decided I hated the stock trigger) and putting a Vortex PST FFP 6-24 x50 scope on a 20 MOA base.
I want to get my skills sorted and put more money into ammo and reloading before I decide my gear isn't worthy of me Wink

I have considered a chassis but figured that buying a purpose built long range rig would be a better purchase, when the time came. Maybe not?

Maybe I will shoot this barrel out and then have the action trued while I decide on a new barrel/caliber.

Any suggestions on chassis and gunsmiths are welcome, for the future.

Thanks,

Bruce




"I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
-Abraham Lincoln

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
-PJ O'Rourke
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Posts: 2900 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What would be a good stock/chassis to drop my action into?

Bruce




"I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
-Abraham Lincoln

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
-PJ O'Rourke
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Posts: 2900 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A Remington action works with a bunch of models. I think your first consideration is the type:
- a traditional stock such as a McMillan/Manners, or a more modern chassis.
- something with a bunch of rails, or very few.
- consider the weight -- will you be carrying & shooting off-hand, or mainly bench & prone
- consider the possibility of integrating with accessories -- bipod, tripod, hand stops, hand supports, slings
- your preferred type of magazines
- your desire (or not) to switch barrels and/or calibers

Just off the top of my head. Most likely there are other things to think about.

Even though I'm quite familiar with ARs, I prefer a traditional stock for a bolt action rifle. I just don't want a true pistol grip or a thumb hole. I like to place my shooting-hand thumb on the top of the stock, just behind the action.

Stocks are personal. Choose one that works for you.
 
Posts: 5642 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by fritz:

Even though I'm quite familiar with ARs, I prefer a traditional stock for a bolt action rifle. I just don't want a true pistol grip or a thumb hole. I like to place my shooting-hand thumb on the top of the stock, just behind the action.

Stocks are personal. Choose one that works for you.


Stocks are a personal. Part of that is having an adjustable chassis, length of pull, cheek height. I rarely shoot others rifles, very unlikely I'll get a proper cheek position, proper eye box on the scope.... Unless your stock just happens to fit you perfectly, which I very much doubt, you'll have a very difficult time maintaining POA/POI.

I'm the opposite of fritz, I prefer a pistol grip/thumb-hole type chassis using a wrap around grip.

Not the chassis's I use.... the XLR Element or Envy are well though out, well machined.

https://xlrindustries.com/pages/chassis-systems
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gunsmiths.

jelrod1, Jonathon Elrod has done a great job for me. He just sent out two more chambered barrels to me this week. With those two, total of 14 barrels he's chambered for me. 10-Dashers, 1-6.5x47, 1-7saum and the 2-6BRA's.
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of rduckwor
posted Hide Post
quote:
Any differences in hand loading, between the calibers? Is one easier or harder to get right and get dialed in? I definitely wouldn't want to waste too many of those 2000 rounds on load development!

Bruce



Realize that I am not in the caliber as most of the guys above, but 6.5CM was very easy to tune loads for me. I have two I use routinely, one with Hornady brass and their 140 ELD-M and one with Prime brass and the Norma 130 Golden Target. Both with H4350.

Neither took too much effort or time to find.

Good Luck,

RMD




TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…”
 
Posts: 19538 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Offgrid,

Did he also true your action? I expect I will be doing that while the barrel is off.

Bruce




"I cannot spare this man. He fights!"
-Abraham Lincoln

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
-PJ O'Rourke
“It is just as difficult and dangerous to try to free a people that wants to remain servile as it is to try to enslave a people that wants to remain free."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

 
Posts: 2900 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RNshooter:
Did he also true your action? I expect I will be doing that while the barrel is off.

offgrid has Bighorn actions, which are really high quality actions that don't need to be trued. Truing a Remy action is a good idea.

Jonathan Elrod does good work. I've seen and shot a few rifles that he has done -- they all shoot great. Once all my Remington 40X 22lr repeater parts arrive, I will send them to Jonathan for the build. If you don't have a local high-end gunsmith that you trust, Jonathan must be on your short list.
 
Posts: 5642 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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