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quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
Wind currents that are up, down, & backwards of the expected flow.

quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Thanks. I always appreciate wind discussions.

Check in day at the Breakneck match included steel at various distance to check our dope. Winds were minimal, 2-4mph from my 6
o'clock. Steel targets at 450, 850, 1000, and 1155 yards IIRC. My elevation dope was virtually perfect. Which means I had updrafts at our ranch, as I suspected on my May 13 posts.

From the top of my head, the Breakneck match had at least 2 stages yesterday with up drafts that affected POI. Winds weren't bad, as I never measured a breeze more than 8 mph -- either from my calculated drift or via Kestral.

Our squad's first wind issue was one with coyote-shaped targets. Five targets from maybe 400 to 1000 yards. I'll try to find my match book tomorrow for better details. We shot from a rounded ridge -- first target in a gentle drainage, with the rest placed a up-slope of another gentle ridge. Shooters were absolutely nailing the first 3 targets. The 4th one had some hits, but the longest target was barely nicked. It was a white beacon in the green grass. After the shoot, the RO stated there's an updraft on that ridge, and virtually all of us were sailing our rounds over the coyote's back. Since the coyote's back was level with the ridge, we never saw the impacts and couldn't correct elevation for our second shot on target.

A little later we shot at coyote head poppers. The first three targets were on a gentle ridge, maybe 350-400 yards away. There was no paint left on these targets when we got there, and the spring on one popper failed during our squad's rotation -- likely from multiple hits. The 4th coyote head was about 720 yards away, with a shallow valley between it and the 400-ish yard targets. There was an updraft for the 4th target, and the dirt impacts were over the coyote's head.

And just after that we had a stage which supposedly had hanging possum-shaped targets. They looked like bowling pins to me. Distances were maybe 350 to 500 yards. The first 3 targets were beat up. The shooter before me broke the 1st target with his 6.5x47. They replaced that target with another one, which I promptly broke with my 6.5 Creedmoor. OK, 1st target has just been thrown out of the match. Anyway, most of us drilled targets 1-3, but target 4 was a pain. Fortunately we got 4 rounds on it. I aimed for the fat part of the "bowling pin" and twice put rounds at the elevation of the neck of the pin, one barely left and one barely right. For the next 2 rounds I aimed at the base of the pin and I hit the fat part of the pin twice. There was a shallow depression in front of the 4th target which channeled wind upwards.

In all of the cases I was very careful to avoid parallax issues. My bipod was high enough for the final targets of the stages that I wasn't scrunched down on the rear bag, buttstock, and scope.
 
Posts: 5431 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
The new nickname for the match is Battle of Wetneck. Tomorrow we get to meet at 5am and shoot in the mud.

Actually, the mud wasn't a problem. The pastures were wet (not muddy) in the morning and the roads weren't as muddy as expected. It was interesting starting a match at 5:30am. Fortunately there were clouds to the east, so we didn't have any stages where we were blinded by the sun.

I did my best to keep my score in the middle of the bell curve. The rest of the Colorado folks decided they should post higher scores -- those party poopers.

Wind was pretty minimal, especially for Nebraska. The biggest wind drift I experienced was about 8 mph, but unfortunately it occurred on a small target at distance -- one which I likely had only a 1.5 mph window for a hit. I lost 4 points on that target's cluster, as I was 100% on that stage's previous 4 targets that were closer and low in the valley. Frickin' twitchy winds.

I mis-dialed elevation on 2 targets. Frickin' rookie mistake. Never shot at any wrong targets, however.

All stages had 2 minute time limits, for 8-10 rounds. I had no issues with the prone stages, but timed out on every positional stage, leaving 1 or 2 shots on the table for each stage. Positional stages were generally 3 targets from 3 different rock positions -- shoot all 3 targets from one rock, then all three targets from each of the other rocks. Building stable positions on the rocks was a challenge, as they were generally pointy on the top. I didn't bring my Gamechanger bag, which was a serious mistake. The more common light-weight rectangular bags didn't work so well for me on the rocks. I was pleased that I shot a left-handed stage pretty well -- scoring 3 of 4 on both the right- and left-handed positions off rocks.

Target distances were reasonable. Maybe 350 yards on the low end, with most targets under 700 yards. The close targets were generally pretty small, however.

The longest targets were actually pretty generous in size. Four targets from 1,000 to 1,170 yards, and two targets about 1,300 yards.

Due to weather issues we shot 14 of the scheduled 24 stages. Too bad, because the match director is a great guy, and he puts together some nice stages. I hope the weather jinx ended this year. I'm looking forward to next year's match.
 
Posts: 5431 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Thanks again for all that; interesting and informative.

Question about left-handed stages: What if someone is blind in one eye, or nearly so? Just don’t shoot the course? Any accommodation would seem to favor anyone claiming that handicap.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38314 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We had one guy on our squad who is blind in his left eye. For the weak side position, he was allowed to shoot with his right eye. However he still had to pull the trigger with his left hand and mount the gun on his left shoulder. Ended up being a pretty goofy looking head position on the buttstock, but he shot OK that way. Obviously not his first rodeo.
 
Posts: 5431 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
However he still had to pull the trigger with his left hand and mount the gun on his left shoulder.


Now I understand the appeal of mildly-recoiling cartridges. Wink




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38314 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Going out tomorrow to finally shoot the 30" 7SAUM at distance. 1st shot will go off at around 7:00AM when the light conditions are ideal and usually calm winds. Will shoot two different loads at 850, 1050, 1350, 1760. Excited to see how it shoots.

Loads shooting very well at 100yds.

60/H4831SC/180 Hybrids/2980
63/H1000/3010

H1000 load. Looking through my scope the 7mm bullet holes look huge, how much real estate they take up compared to the 6mm. Fun stuff!



 
Posts: 2487 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd say she's a shooter Offgrid. A buddy sent me picks of his 7 SAUM's group. Five shot group under five inches at 900 yards. Let us know how it shoots.
 
Posts: 1701 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Fun early morning shooting my 7saum. It's a hammer! Shot with a good friend who also has a 7saum.

We started at 850 yds, shot both loads. H1000 the clear winner. 2 1/2" of vertical for five shots. 4831SC just under 5", didn't shoot the 4831SC load further. Dope was a smidge high, could have taken out .1 mil maybe. Both those loads stacked at 100yds, distance shows what a load will do for sure. My buddies barrel a Chanlynn left twist. With almost no wind I was holding left with a Bartlien right twist landing center he was holding right landing left. About 8" apart/difference. Hmmmm... maybe one of our zero's is off? We both put a round at 100, perfect. Shot matches many times with others with opposite twist, as long as I been shooting first time shooting multiple shots at the same targets side by side opposite twist. Fun to see the barrel twist effect. Bummer I can't take wind calls from him! Moved to 1060, easy peasy, my dope was low by .1 mil. Moved to 1360 dialed additional .1 mil. Things get harder, bullet moves 8.5" per 1 mph. 24" wide plate, 2/3, dope was good on vertical. Wind was switching back and forth. Move to 1660 dialed additional .2 mils to my dope, things get even harder, every 1 mph bullet moves 13.5". Shot 3 set, 3 shots. 2/3, 2/3, 3/3. Dope/vertical good adding .2 mils. Great to check/confirm my dope, wrote everything down. Great to see the 7saum shoot so well. Ton o fun shooting at these distances!

Messed around with my dope when I got home. Had to take off .01 off the Berger 180 Hybrids published G7 BC to get things to line up, left the velocity alone. Go out again in two weeks confirm things. My buddy points and trims his bullets, his dope tracked the published G7 BC perfectly. He's offered to do the same for my bullets, might take him up on that. Maybe 10 or so, do a A-B, see if one holds better vertical...

My 7saum is built on a short action, freebore was throated for the 180 Hybrids to touch the lands at about 2.950, max mag OAL. I'm loading at 2.935. Shoving the bullet a ways in the case. We've all read ideally we should have the bullet boat-tail junction at the case neck/shoulder junction... My buddies 7saum is built on a long action, his freebore the bullet set as suggested, 3.10 OAl. No difference in how our rifles shoot, both great.
 
Posts: 2487 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Buddy I shot with yesterday had a 338 Lapua Magnum Ackley Improved built on a single shot Banard action, very nice action. He's waiting on dies now. Should be able to get a Berger 300 Hybrid zipping along at 3050-3100. I have a interest in that caliber. Would never consider it if I didn't have a place to shoot it, 2000yds plus. Wait and see how his shoots...

Once past 1200yds even with the 7saum, no doubt things get tricky. I look at inches the wind moves a bullet per one mph, believe it puts things in perspective. Shows how difficult it is to get that Hollywood one shot!

7saum/Berger 180 Hybrid at 3010.
1060yds-4.8"
1360yds-8.5"
1660yds-12.5"
Mile-15.7"

338AI/Berger 300 Hybrid at 3050
1060yds-3.5"
1360yds-6.1"
1660yds-9.6"
Mile-11.0"

No doubt the hit factor will go up on the 338AI. Very much doubt it would follow the percentage difference between wind drift.

The other thing that makes that magical mile shot so difficult is velocity ES. I chrono'd 10 7saum rds, had a ES of 14. Which I believe is outstanding. But that was just one sample. I'm married to a statistician, she would point out with just one sample my data is flawed! That 14fps spread at a mile is about a 10" vertical spread. My 7 hits on the 1660yd plate yesterday elevation spread was well over 10" guessing by measuring with my reticle, L-R spread even greater. Last years King of Two Mile competition, David Tubbs had a Magneto chrono on his rifle during the competition. Chrono was attached to the chassis not barrel. I get was he was doing, he wasn't falsely chasing impacts from velocity spread.

Fun stuff!
 
Posts: 2487 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
she would point out with just one sample my data is flawed!

At least you have someone to point it out to you even if it is sort of a bringdown. Wink

quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
David Tubbs had a Magneto chrono on his rifle during the competition.


That reminds me I’ve intended to ask the long distance shooters if they have any experience with the LabRadar chronograph and what they think of it. Unless the unit would be fooled by shots from other shooters, it seems that it would be the best for continuous real time velocity monitoring.

I have an Oehler chronograph (two, actually), but they are time-consuming to set up for just a few measurements.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38314 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Based on my experience with friends LabRadar chrono's, I would not buy one. Finicky to set up, blast from the rifle tends to move them out of alignment, seen wild numbers. EX: my Dasher reading 4000fps+. No, you can't have others around you.

I believe the Magneto chrono is where it's at. I and several friends have them, we've A-B them, all give same numbers.

Suggest a Magneto and this if you want a chrono that does not effect POI. Guess Tubbs idea sparked MPA to build this?

https://masterpiecearms.com/sh...agnetospeed-adaptor/
 
Posts: 2487 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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See Tubbs Magneto set up here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C7ZXS7MrKc
 
Posts: 2487 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks, offgrid. That is an interesting adapter, but I would have to see if it were possible for me to devise a way to use it on my rifles. And I do appreciate your opinion about the LabRadar.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38314 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by offgrid:
Last years King of Two Mile competition, David Tubbs had a Magneto chrono on his rifle during the competition. Chrono was attached to the chassis not barrel. I get was he was doing, he wasn't falsely chasing impacts from velocity spread.

It really makes sense to use an accurate chrono for every shot, when we're approaching the ballistics limits of a cartridge and shooting from a fixed position. I've wondered about some wonky vertical impacts with .22lr ammo, especially for targets 200 yards and beyond. A chrono not attached to the barrel should help determine whether POI variation is from MV or wind.

****
I keep thinking the concept of a Labradar unit makes sense. Then I remember the total cluster at last year's Fort Carson match, when I borrowed another shooter's Labradar to obtain MV data on my new 6.5 barrel. The unit produced only 1 good reading out of 10 with my TBAC suppressor attached. And this with the owner tweaking the unit like crazy with every shot. Evidently my suppressor was too quiet for the Labradar.

So I shot bare muzzle with the Labradar. Still no bueno. Maybe 2 or 3 good readings out of 10 rounds. So offgrid grabs his Magnetospeed. Five rounds later I have really nice MV readings.

Another thing I learned from this experience -- Magnetospeed units have two ports to plug the cable. My forward port (it faces down) doesn't work with a crap. My rear port (it faces backwards) works like a charm. IIRC, offgrid didn't realize Magnetospeeds have a forward port. I didn't realize they have rear port.
 
Posts: 5431 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I shot the West course of the Steel Safari match today. My score sucked, as in likely the worst score (relative to the pack) I've ever done. Finished the course with temp of 100, likely in the 90s for the final couple of hours. Variable winds in the 15 mph +/- ballpark for the final 3 stages. It's tough missing steel by a couple of inches target after target after target. I managed stage times a little better than last year, but still have some issues going from finding/ranging targets with the LRF binos, then to the relocating them in the rifle's optics.

Really, though, it's a fun match format -- but very few excel at this venue.

The heat did a number on some guys. During the 4 hours of wandering around and shooting, I downed almost 3 quarts of Gatorade and almost 3 pints of Pepsi/Dew. I still should have drank more.

Looking forward to tomorrow's opportunity to not finding targets, to missing targets I do shoot at, to running out of time on stages, and sweating like a pig. It just doesn't get any better than this.
 
Posts: 5431 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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fritz,

100 degrees, Yikes!!! This mountain man's head would explode! 37 degrees this AM here.

Shoot well tomorrow!

Raton cancelled due to fire danger.
 
Posts: 2487 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Today's forecast, per NOAA:

Mostly sunny, with a high near 91. Windy, with a north wind 25 to 35 mph becoming east 15 to 25 mph. Winds could gust as high as 50 mph.

Per-frickin'-fect
 
Posts: 5431 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Temps topped out in the upper 80's today, so it wasn't so bad. Winds kicked up just a few minutes before I headed out on course. The northerly winds were probably the worst on the North course, easily over 20 mph. On the South course I was more protected, with fishtailing winds quartering from my backside. My effective wind holds varied from 5-15 mph, with most in the 7-10 mph ballpark.

Today I scored double that of yesterday. Woohoo. I still couldn't find some targets, and ran out of time on many of the 6-target stages while looking for the last plate. On the 6-target stages I started shooting after finding 3 or 4 targets. I also spent more time looking for better places to set bipod, bags, and/or tripod. I feel I lost a bunch of targets yesterday by plopping down right over the top of the designated shooting position. We are allowed to be up to an arm's length from the painted dot shooting locations, and often moving a foot in one direction or another makes a noticeable difference in gun stability.
 
Posts: 5431 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Does anyone have Jelrod's contact information?
I'm pulling a build from a gunsmith. Three weeks of radio silence is enough for me. Finally returned an email after I contacted Impact Precision.


Moving on.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: swage,
 
Posts: 1701 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by swage:
Does anyone have Jelrod's contact information?
I'm pulling a build from a gunsmith. Three weeks of radio silence is enough for me. Finally returned an email after I contacted Impact Precision.

Moving on.

Email me directly and I will respond with his phone number.




Nut up or Shut up!
 
Posts: 8073 | Location: 1200 yards out | Registered: January 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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