That originate with the old WInchester Model 97 riot guns, they click clack real loud when you cycle one

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by amc:
You'll need to convence a jury that it was a last resort to defend yourself or family.

Not everywhere in these not-so United States. Anyone who believes that without checking applicable statutes where s/he lives is doing her/himself and those s/he's responsible for protecting a grave disservice.

In my case it isn't only about statues, but even if that is the only consideration, There is little doubt that even if one isn't charged criminally in a post SD/HD shooting, a civil suite won't be far behind. I know, I know, "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six" and I agree with that, but I will make those decisions as the situation dictates.

quote:

Originally posted by tanksoldier:
If the intruder is armed you intend to give them a free shot then?

I just don't know how to say it any better but I'll try one last time. The SITUATION will dictate my response. For one thing, the shotgun is not necessarily the firearm that I would happen to have, it could be a pistol, If I have a real belief that someone is indeed in my home it might well be both. If I deem it necessary to fire without warning I would certainly do so. If I happen to only have my shotgun then I will need to chamber a round first (if I hadn't already, again that depends on the situation). In that situation I will have a little less of an advantage because of the noise, but as I've said, that is a trade off that I am willing to make. In HD/SD there are always trade offs. Anyone who says they are perpetually at full preparedness for HD/SD is either full of shit or so damned paranoid that their life is not worth living in the first place.

For the last time, this is a trade off that I have decided is worth it for my family and I. It may prove one day to be wrong, but hell, taking a right instead of a left into my neighborhood may prove to be fatal one day. All one can do is make up their own mind as to what is acceptable in terms of trade offs and go with it. For those of you who want to risk an AD in order to have the element of surprise well, if that is the choice that you feel is best and you should go with it. Of course, an AD could prove just as tragic as my lack of surprise could turn out to be.

My ND with a pump shotgun taught me that the sound is the last thing your brain processes.

I personally hate it when someone says the dreaded, 'the sound of me chambering the shotgun will scare the bejeebus outta any bad guy'.

I keep my shotties cruiser ready, safety off. That's how I trained.

I had to buy a semi-auto because I pooed my pants every time I rack the slide on a pump gun.

Wes

quote:

Originally posted by agony:
My ND with a pump shotgun taught me that the sound is the last thing your brain processes.

Are you willing to share the specifics of how the ND occured?

This has actually been a fairly enlightening thread. I never have bought into the "scare factor" as a legitimate reason to leave the chamber empty. But since there appears to be a legitimate safety concern, then that trumps just about anything else.

cc

Oh, yeah, I just love this stupid saying, and I've heard it being repeated as gospel from some of the most unlikely sources.

You should already have a round chambered if you know you're about to confront an intruder. But if someone wants to risk short stroking and jamming their scattergun because they're under stress, all in some mis-guided effort to frighten away or intimidate an intruder, then go ahead and wait to chamber a round until you're in the presence of an intruder who may be armed. Jesus.

I keep my shotgun loaded with the hammer down and safety off. That's not to get the sound of chambering a round, it's just because I don't want to leave it cocked all the time.

If I think I'm going to need it for anything, the first thing I do is rack it to chamber a round. In an emergency, I'd rather depend on racking the slide than on manipulating the safety. I'd rather not have an intruder hear it, though. I don't want a bad guy to hear anything except the sound of a round being fired if it comes to that.

quote:

Originally posted by tanksoldier:
Once they set foot within your door they have forfeited their right to life.

+1

Cruiser ready for me means hard slide safety on. I've pointed my handgun at people and had them look at me sideways, but the one time i took the 870 out of the rack (right on top of the bad guy) and racked the slide i saw a look on compliance id never seen before. Its not a silver bullet but it seems having a long gun makes the bad guys believe you'll really kill them.

quote:

Originally posted by PepeLep:

quote:

Originally posted by tanksoldier:
Once they set foot within your door they have forfeited their right to life.

+1

+1 x Abraham Lincoln and a cheese sandwich!

EDITED
Forgot to say, I don't keep the chamber empty for the 'sound', I keep it empty for AD safey. I just think the sound adds to the surrender if applicable

A lot of people should be nicknamed "itchy", cause they got itchy trigger fingers

You can rack a shotgun in about .250 seconds.
Keeping it chambered or empty is personal preference. Neither one is the only way to skin-a-cat. Both arguments have validity. However, the operator sets his tools up for his preference, and situation.
.250 is instantaneous....which means chamber empty can be rectified instantly....meaning chamber empty is "hot" as much as loaded chamber is. No dif, just get the added benefit of the noise.

Personally, I have no issue about grabbing my HD and spending an extra .250-sec to make it ready. I seriously doubt that loss of time will figure into saving my life.

We broke down the door of a hotel last Sat night/morning. 4:30-am. Two Felons sleeping. The sound of the door busting open, & people yelling (us), flashlight, taser's laser, physical contact....all these things had them shitting in their pants (ghost white, sweating profusely and arms/body/voice shaking). What a way to wake up.
So I can take an educated guess from experience , yes, fast/violent sights & SOUNDS does get attention and set off your fright & panic buttons.

So keeping a chamber empty is not "wrong". Just depends on how you personally want to deal with the situations.
I know if someone pointed a shotty at me and racked it, it would set off more panic & compliance buttons in my skull, then just a visual.
And finally, note that some of us on this board and in the gun community do NOT want to ever have to shoot anyone. I commend all of the people here who would do everything they could from taking a life, unless it was the only and final option.
Too many clowns are jonesing to get to use their guns on someone.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: csmw,

quote:

Originally posted by csmw:
I commend all of the people here who would do everything they could from taking a life, unless it was the only and final option.
Too many clowns are jonesing to get to use their guns on someone.

I agree that no one here wants to shoot someone. However, if you are presenting a weapon then you have already decided that you are in danger of death or grevious bodily harm. At that point I feel that the decision has been made for you - trying things like "freeze" or warning shots are only going to get you killed, as will relying on the sound of the shotgun.

At near contact distance, you may only have a second or two to react. If someone comes through my front door they can be in my bedroom in probably 3 or 4 seconds. I'll personally need that .25 seconds of time.

I realize that's not what you're saying - but I HAVE met people who are counting on the shotgun sound making the BG run for the hills. That's dangerous.

Having racked and pointed a shotgun at many people in my past career, I can say that it has no effect on anyone with a criminal bent. I never saw one person surrender to the audio and visual aspects of a shotgun.

They usually had to be taken down by physical force, a German Shepherd Dog, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by blueiron:
Having racked and pointed a shotgun at many people in my past career, I can say that it has no effect on anyone with a criminal bent

Dude, I gotta tell ya....if you (as a police officer) pointed a shotgun at me you would get my attention and immediate compliance to the fullest. I have been in that situation, where LE mistook me and situation and had shotguns pointing. Scary? No. Because you have trained professional pointing gun...you know you aren't getting shot unless you do something to cause it.
Point it at me and pump it, Bro...I am on the ground in fetal position LOL!!!

I can't imagine the type of criminals you came up on that didn't comply when leveled a shotgun at them. Those are people I would never want to meet.
I don't know you, but if you were tangling with scumbags like that, I have all respect for you

CSMW
If you knew how little training that American police get with firearms/shotguns you would have been scared to the max..
Only one in ten officers, maybe less are gun sluts. Most could care less. Try to convince officers that they need to carry a second mag for auto pistol's so they can clear double feeds is a bitch. You should contact your local police and see if they will tell you how often they qualify and how many hours of firearms training they get in the academy. My local city shoots quals once a year and shoots familierization with shotguns of maybe ten rounds not for score once a year.
S/F
Tipy

Ka-Chunk is neither myth nor reality, it is derived from artistic license in both cinema and dime novels.

It projects resolution of will and impending doom all in one action.

No bearing on the real world.

If your gun isn't loaded, you're behind the eight ball.

For all those that are chivalrous to think they are sparing bloodshed via intimidation haven't been on the street long.

You have no idea what you are going up against when you confront someone.

Some will back down, some won't... some will hesitate, some just start shooting.

Billy

^^^^Word^^^^^

If I were the intruder and I heard that sound ( or a semiautomatic pistol slide shoving a round in the chamber, or a single action revolver hammer cocking) I' drop and hide first, then start shooting in the direction that sound came from on the assumption that anyone who makes a noise like that intends to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by terry hoover:
CSMW
If you knew how little training that American police get with firearms/shotguns you would have been scared to the max..
Only one in ten officers, maybe less are gun sluts. Most could care less. Try to convince officers that they need to carry a second mag for auto pistol's so they can clear double feeds is a bitch. You should contact your local police and see if they will tell you how often they qualify and how many hours of firearms training they get in the academy. My local city shoots quals once a year and shoots familierization with shotguns of maybe ten rounds not for score once a year.
S/F
Tipy

Most officers who like shotguns seem to be those who grew up hunting with shotguns. The ones who shoot shotguns once a year, reluctantly, at qual time are not likely to deploy them on the street, I would think. But, then, I work for an agency that does not issue shotguns, and only those of us who buy our own, and qual with them, can carry them at work. The few duffers who do buy duty shotguns tend to stop bothering to bring them to work after a short time.

quote:

My local city shoots quails once a year and shoots familiarization with shotguns of maybe ten rounds not for score once a year.
S/F

Your department needs serious help. State law in NJ is at least twice a year with handgun, more with specialized firearms.

Range time is a small part. It qualifies you to shoot at a stationary paper target. Force on force training which has been started many years ago in our academies is worth as much or more than range time. One could send hundreds or thousands of rounds downrange and not be competent in a deadly force situation. Until you are actually forced into one, you don't know what the outcome will be.

In addition to that training, we have four hours of deadly force overview highlighting recent changes to the laws.