Many, many posters in threads talk about how they keep a pump shotgun at home, but leave it unchambered. When trouble comes calling, they state that sound made when chambering a round is so universally known, that all bad guys within a mile's radius cease their evil doings and flee as they wet their pants. Ok, I exaggerate, but the premise is still there that the sound will potentially stop the home invasion.

Anyone have any evidence, or real life stories to back that claim up?

Seems there are several downsides to this approach. You may not have time, you may fumble it, you may give your position away. There's an interesting given the thread in the pistols section about how one wouldn't want to give one's position away by using the cocking mechanism on the P7. Shouldn't it be the same for a shotgun?

Thanks
cc

Any evidence that it works is anecdotal, and that is one of the 2 issues. People in the kind of critical situation in which someone need to chamber a round are usually in a pretty high state of anxiety, arousal and stress, and the norm is for misperceptions to be made about what is seen and heard. So the accuracy of what the user reports is not guaranteed.

The same applies to the person who the gun is being directed at. They are likely pretty jacked up, may even be under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol, and definitely adrenalized, so they are going to have alterations in their perceptions of events. They may not even hear the sound to begin with.

Second, and to me more important, is that once a round has been chambered, the weapon is far more likely to be discharged if it is struck or dropped, or if someone's trigger finger discipline is sloppy. The crossbolt safety is essentially useless in a confrontation,(Mossberg style tang-mounted safeties being the significant exception and allowing actual use of the safety) so my preference is that the shooter charge the chamber only when it is more likely that the gun will actually need to be fired than not. Most of the time charging the chamber can be done simultaneously as the gun is being brought to a firing position or onto the target.

IMHO, verbal commands to the suspect are more important, and if they are going to hear anything, I want it to be them.

Excellent observations and comments, sendec.

quote:

Originally posted by sendec:
The crossbolt safety is essentially useless in a confrontation,(Mossberg style tang-mounted safeties being the significant exception and allowing actual use of the safety) so my preference is that the shooter charge the chamber only when it is more likely that the gun will actually need to be fired than not.

Regarding the above, I was once again dealing with the problem of the typical shotgun safety (Remington 870) just a couple of days ago. If it's slow and awkward for a right-handed shooter to operate the safety, it's all but impossible for a left-handed user.

I hadn't ever considered the approach of not even chambering a round until it's time to shoot. Is that your own personal philosophy, or have you encountered it as a department policy as well?

Yes and no. In my line of work, I've had some old timers stop the (stuff) when the shotgun was racked (we had to carry them, chamber empty, safety on, mag tube loaded so you had to rack to get one in the chamber). But that was in an environment where general noise was not over whelming. Some of my young buck suspects don't hear shotguns and I had one particularly tuned to the sound of an AR racking (seems he had one or shot one so he knew the sound).

I went to contact a suspect on a theft one time, knocked on the front door and heard the sound of the shotgun being racked from inside the house. THAT got my attention (and a few other like minded people ). Didn't pee my pants but pucker factor went stratospheric.

But the reality is that the noise is often not heard and often does not offer a deterrant, especially if the suspect is high or mental/emotional. In fact, homeowners who charge before confronting are already behind the curve. What happens if you get nervous and short stroke? What happens if you confront at bad breath distance? You carry your handgun loaded, why not your shotgun?

My shotgun is ready in that all I do is push the safety and get ready to light up the possible with some goodness from Surefire. Racking sounds cool, looks cool in the movies but offers no real advantage in a dynamic event like a home break in.

I'll count on the slug to stop them, not the sound. If I rack it and they fall to the ground and beg for mercy, hey... great. But I'm not counting on it.

It does send a message to the bad guy: "Hey, it ain't mom and pop asleep upstairs. I'm awake, I know you're there, and I've got a loaded shotgun waiting for you. Take your choice."

I totally agree with Herbg22. When a draw any weapon I am expecting the worst and pleasantly surprised when it turns out better.

I've read on the interwebz that racking can constitute a threat, even if you aren't pointing at anyone. Is this lore?

I don't put my trust in bullshit stories about sounds having magical anti-crackhead properties. No more than I hang garlic over my door to keep Dracula away, I don't count on a sound to solve all of my problems. I prefer to engage threats on my life with high velocity lead. Leaving the chamber empty aside, count on your trigger pulling skills.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I hadn't ever considered the approach of not even chambering a round until it's time to shoot. Is that your own personal philosophy, or have you encountered it as a department policy as well?

Both. While it's statistically pretty rare, shotguns seem to be the weapon most likely to fire if dropped or struck, and I've seen cops drop and strike, or get struck, shotguns far more often than I've seen them actually have to shoot them. And the number of cops with wandering trigger fingers is nauseating- there are enough NDs with heavy trigger DA pistols, the last thing I want is for them to have a round chambered in a pump gun with a hammer barely hanging on to a sear hook.

When they come out with a shotgun with a firing pin lock, or a true double action like Mossberg tried a couple years back, then chambering a round immediately might be OK. You really don't loose anything on time, I haven't run into anyone who cannot start from a ready position and have the gun charged by the time the muzzle is on the target.

Not the same, but related.
I was standing behind a guy, my partner in front of him w/ a taser at ready position.
I had the guy lift his shirt so I could see the tats on his back (we were looking for a guy who was out on bond for assault of a police officer, then violated bond for assaulting his wife).

I see the identifying tat, and I pull my gun from the thumbreak leather pancake. I could audibly hear the sliding of the gun against the rig....apparently so could he, because before I even could say anything, he yelled "you got me" and threw up his hands.

I would imagine the "rack" of a shotgun would be like my story x1000.
I have never racked my shotty at someone, but it has been a visual several times. It has prolly kept me from getting swung-on, just as many times.

In terms of home defense, I'd rather that their first knowledge of my presence come about from either a shouted command or the muzzle blast of a 5.56.

Our dept. defines "Cruiser Ready" as magazine full, chamber empty, trigger pulled, safety on. You have to rack it. Having done it hundreds of times, most BGs don't recognize the sound, anyway. I never stopped a fight, robbery, or riot with that sound alone. Just not so.

No one knows the "suspects" state of mind. Crystal meth? Mental? Teenager unfamilier with any weapons? Hell what if the "suspect" is deaf or has a ipod in his ear. Millions of things come into play and the last thing you want is to depend on some unknown person "hearing" a pump shotgun being racked. That old story is total BS.
What if the "suspect" is trying to commit suicide by cop? Goes on and on and it all crap, don't ever depend on that noise.
S/F
Tipy

quote:

Originally posted by LtJL:
Our dept. defines "Cruiser Ready" as magazine full, chamber empty, trigger pulled, safety on. You have to rack it. Having done it hundreds of times, most BGs don't recognize the sound, anyway. I never stopped a fight, robbery, or riot with that sound alone. Just not so.

That is our cruiser ready as well. I want a round in the chamber ASAP for many reasons. While uncommon, I don't want the gun pointing in the direction of anyone while I chamber a round. This is due to several factors, one being a complete mechanical failure causing the shotgun to inadvertantly go off. Remington does cover that possiblity in the armorers course. The other is that I do not want to give my position away. If I have a shotgun, I most likely may need to use it. Why give someone the advantage of knowing I'm there before the loud verbal commands.

I doubt a couple of desperates high on meth care what sound your shotgun makes.

I keep my chamber empty to avoid an AD or ND.

I don't care about the sound. If someone is foolish enough to disregard the law, and force entry into my house with intent to do me harm then i will rely on the 7 rounds of 00 buckshot to stop them.

If they run away from the sound so be it, but i doubt they will.

If i really believed that i would just record the sound on CD and play it when my house was broken into.


Kevin

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I hadn't ever considered the approach of not even chambering a round until it's time to shoot. Is that your own personal philosophy, or have you encountered it as a department policy as well?

I keep my shotguns "cruiser ready" because it's easier to rack the slide under stress than find the safety.

EDIT: _I_ define cruiser ready as magazine full, chamber empty, trigger pulled, safety off.

I'm sure that in the entire history of the pump shotgun the sound of a racking slide has caused someone to back down or think twice, but it's not something I'm taking into consideration myself.

quote:

Originally posted by dont_tread_on_me:
I've read on the interwebz that racking can constitute a threat, even if you aren't pointing at anyone. Is this lore?

I guess it could be. Depends on local law and it's interpretation. I suppose some places racking the slide could be considered "brandishing" as in "displaying in a threatening manner".

My technique is to chamber a round as the gun comes on target, so anybody who feels "threatened" will have bigger problems in .25 seconds.

Why is it that so many are so willing to limit the tools used for home /self defense. When I bought a shotgun for my wife to use in the early 90's, I taught her to do basically the same thing as Sendec has stated. I explained to her the reasoning behind it, which was to limit AD AND to have that little extra variable that she may not have to fire. I just don't get the thought that if you point a weapon at an intruder/aggressor then you have already committed to shooting. The legal, moral and phycological ramifications of taking a life is why I choose to defend my family and myself utilizing EVERY tool available . If I ever need to shoot in a HD/SD scenario I will have a clear conscience that I made every reasonable effort to avoid having to do so. There is NO doubt in my mind that Mrs Parallel (or I) will not hesitate if we ever have to shoot. The reason is that we approach HD/SD in a manner that doesn't have us second guessing ourselves. So.. yeah... we would hope that chambering a round in the shotgun will be a deterrent. That doesn't mean that if the BG doesn't run a way we will be so shocked that we never defend ourselves. To suggest such a thing is just silly.

A shotgun slide can be worked while bringing it into play. The sound just adds to the sight, and the sight alone ends most fights before they begin. If that doesn't work, you have the round you can use the round you just chambered.

I can say it worked for me once, like magic.