I’m curious whether anyone has shot a precision rifle under low light conditions at moderate to longer ranges (100+ yards). If so, I am interested in the details, especially if it was a formal match: targets, distances, setup conditions and requirements, sights used, etc., along with any tips and lessons learned.

I keep thinking about trying it myself, but keep putting it off. I’ve shot ARs at night, but at no more than 50 yards and full size silhouettes only.

Thanks for all replies.

Are you talking about true night firing, or shooting under failing light as you approach dusk?

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
Are you talking about true night firing, or shooting under failing light as you approach dusk?

Primarily full dark conditions when some sort of artificial light would be required to see the targets. And what I’m thinking about trying myself is small, dimly-lighted targets, for example, something like soda cans with a small camping lantern to illuminate the area.

Some years ago an officer who attended an LE sniper course told me about night shooting at water bottles with light sticks inserted inside. I tried that once myself, but the light sticks I used were too small and dim to be seen under the conditions so I never fired any shots.

I am nevertheless interested in discussions of shooting under any low(er) light conditions, but especially using precision type rifles with telescopic sights.

For total dark I got nothing. I've done night fire with NV where the targets have heat signitures, but nothing through glass. Looking forward to hearing from anyone who does.

22 @ 50yrd ara.
Lights shining on targets & over benches

I've never tried a precision rifle as I don't see that I would ever need that. But I have used my defensive AR in its shooting at night configuration (PVS14 behind an aimpoint with a surefire IR head illuminating). At moderate distances that works just fine. Other than the issue of having NV settings in the reticle illumination I would think magnified optic would be fine, but haven't actually tried it and getting a PVS-14 behind it would probably make it difficult.
I would think some of the hog or coyote hunters would chime in on this as I'm sure they go pretty long range, but again not sure that would be considered precision shooting.

I have done it with NV and an IR laser.


If you fiddle with the diopter adjustment you can get to where you can look through the optic with NV and see a relatively in focus reticle.

I've never tried to shoot groups that way, but I have shot some coyotes. Max distance roughly 200 yards.


I wouldn't categorize what I was doing as precision shooting though. Probably minute of pie-plate.


I think I would need a clip-on NV designed to work in front of a telescopic sight to get precise.

I’ve done it quite a bit. I’ve shot paper targets, realistic paper head targets, and realistic 3D body targets and head targets. The 3D head targets were usually moving or set up as close proximity hostage targets.

Full disclosure though it was 15 years ago and I’m sure some new techniques have evolved. The big takeaway in really low light was the quality of the scope and magnesium fluoride on the lens. The better quality the glass, the more available light it would take in and gather. Also tube size matters at taking in light. Distances were usually 100 yards or less. I’ve shot in near darkness, artificial light at the target, various phases of moonlight, etc. We were always taught to turn the magnification down to the lowest possible usable power to allow the glass to take in the most ambient light possible.

It was good training to prepare you for field operations in LE at night. Operationally at night, I rarely deployed much further than 50 yards. Most of the time it was much, much less.

The KY State Police has a great program that incorporates a lot of low/no light precision rifle work. It is PT/stress heavy and not for the faint of heart. They have one of the hardest and most rewarding programs out there. I went through it three times, and taught up there twice. If you can find an FBI regional school to get into, it is free to LE. The basic course has some low light/no light and the advanced course has two nights of low light.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The big takeaway in really low light was the quality of the scope and magnesium fluoride on the lens. The better quality the glass, the more available light it would take in and gather. ... We were always taught to turn the magnification down to the lowest possible usable power to allow the glass to take in the most ambient light possible.

That's the sort of information I was seeking. All what you say makes sense once I think about it, but sometimes it bears emphasizing. Thank you.

As a hunter, a lot of my shots have occurred in very low light up to 30 mins after sunset. My favorite low light hunting scope is a Steiner H4xi. Outside of that I have shot under a 5% moon at 450 yards with a PVS-30 clipped in front of a Vortex Razor HD Gen II at steel. Now THAT was fun! I haven’t done anything competitive.

The first night shooting I did was with in a carbine class, at what was then Graygun's new facility in Oregon. Jljones was our instructor. IIRC, we used flashlights on targets in the 50-100 yard ballpark. Actually, a pretty enjoyable training session.

I've shot a few match stages at night, all as a partner with Alpine in carbine/rifle matches.

The only enjoyable stage was where I was the light guy and Alpine was the bolt action shooter. I would describe targets from the Iraqi "most wanted" card deck in my hand. I put my light on 4 cards about 20 yards down range for Alpine to see. If the card I described matched one of the 4 cards he could see, he asked me to shine the light on 4 steel targets located about 80 yards down range. Then Alpine would shoot the relative (1-4) steel target. We did OK, once I realized how to describe the people in the card deck.

In another stage, maybe 10 unpainted steel targets were located in and about trees and brush, about 200-250 yards across a creek bed. We both had carbines and unlimited ammo for a 3-minute stage. An old fire truck shined its lights across the creek bed and we had to shoot the targets. We never saw a single target, we never fired a shot. Pretty similar result for more than half of the teams in that competition. The stage was thrown out, due to a technicality. One team found only one target, and they just kept banging away on it. They were supposed to score only one hit per target. This stage sucked.

In another stage, we had 3 pairs of targets lit with strobe lights, at distances of maybe 250, 350, and 450 yards. When a shooter's number was called, the strobes went off and we had to shoot any target of our choice. But the strobes were set such that it was easier to see and shoot at the strobe's light on the background berm than the steel target itself. I scored no hits in 6 or 8 shots. Alpine may have 1 hit, but it might have been 0. It was raining, too. This stage sucked.

In another stage, all teams lined up side-by-side on a flat field. We had 2 target options about 200 yards away, both lit by strobes close to the targets. We were allowed to kneel behind our guns just prior to going hot, and they flashed the lights to get our bearings. Little did we know, there was one small bush about 40 yards down range, which was exactly between me/Alpine and the targets. So when the targets were lit up, we couldn't see the targets from our prone positions. The next morning we discovered this and showed it to the match director. Too bad, so sad. The next evening, two more shooters lined up behind the bush and couldn't see the target. This stage sucked.

There's a big night shoot match in Oklahoma. I haven't attended it, but a buddy has. He states it was quite fun, other than having your personal time clock messed up for a few days. The targets are well lit, and the temps are pleasant in the summer. The downside is the wind, which blows hard even in the night in Oklahoma. If you don't get a good wind reading early in the evening, you can't see your impacts, and you miss a crap load of targets.

Thanks, fritz, for all that.

Any comments about the scopesights you and Alpine used? Does the optical quality of different levels of sights matter in your experience?
What about illuminated reticles? When it’s possible to see the targets, are they necessary?

Of course, if it’s not possible to see the targets at all, then it doesn’t matter what type of sights are used. I understand that if a night stage is included in a match that finding the targets under difficult conditions is part of the challenge. In that regard it doesn’t seem any different than what you and others have described in finding small, difficult to see targets in normal daylight matches, just under different conditions.

On the other hand, I would also expect targets to be difficult to find, but not impossible. If competitors like you and Alpine couldn’t do it, were the conditions truly reasonable? Unless I’m misinterpreting something, from your descriptions of the different stages I can only wonder how well the course was evaluated by its designers before inviting a bunch of other people to shoot it. Above I mentioned my own, “Yeah, this isn’t going to work,” discovery, and I would think that should be a given.

Better glass helps. Lower magnification helps. But if the targets are inadequately lit, night shooting sucks.

An illuminated reticle is mandatory. Variable illumination is almost mandatory, and low-ish level illumination is generally best. Lower magnifications levels help -- both from light gathering and finding targets.

IMO strobes provide brighter illumination than steady light, but the brief flashes do strange things to our eyes and brain. They can trick you into confusing what was the target and what was its shadow.

IMO the match directors for these stages didn't think things through. I suspect they tested the stages on moonlit nights. In all cases for us the nights were black as ink. There was no moon, and the stars were obscured by clouds. The only exception was the "Iraqi most wanted card" shoot. Skies were clear, but the moon had already set. I recall lying on the ground, looking up at the stars. Right next to me was one of the two ladies in the team event. We tried to recognize constellations, looked for passing satellites, and pointed out shooting stars. IIRC, Alpine and I shot next to last, at a little after 2am. We arrived on the stage at 9pm. The next morning our first stage call was 8am.

The stage lit by the firetruck was universally hated by competitors. We parked next to a two guys who recently returned from duty in the sandbox. Evidently they were elite members of some unit, which I no longer recall. Maybe Rangers. Anyway, their stage start time was just after ours. We met back at the parking area. They never saw a single target, didn't get a shot off. They cursed the whole time, while packing up. They stated trying to shoot in such conditions was ludicrous and unsafe.

I didn't shoot the team event last year. Uncertain if it is a go for this year. I hope to God that they ixnay all night stages.

Once again, thanks for all that; good fills and confirmations.