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Thinking of attending a practical rifle match next month. *Attended match, video posted* Login/Join 
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
posted
Now that I finished my Franken-SOCOM M14, I’d like to attend a practical rifle match. All I have is the rifle and magazines. What else do I need? Ranges appear to be from 50 to 300 yards.

Tony.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: benny6,


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-01 FFL
www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction).
e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com
 
Posts: 3153 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You need to contact the match site or match director for information on that competition. Issues to understand include course of fire, target distances, types of targets, shooting positions, time limits per stage, equipment limitations, ammo limitations, divisions (if any), and any other rules.
 
Posts: 5923 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
posted Hide Post
Just speculation without match details you may need:

Rifle, mags, mag carriers(back pocket will work, may not be ideal), sling, eye and ear protection.

Many practical rifle matches incorporate a little bit of pistol as well.

Pistol, mags, secure holster (I use retention for 3-gun), mag pouches. Capacity helps, I would take a glock before a 1911.


Ancillary gear:

sunscreen, rain gear, change of shoes/socks, water, snacks, hand wipes, hat (must have for some sun conditions IMHO), a few clothing layers you can easily add/shed, sunglasses other than your shooting glasses, gloves to wear when resetting steel, advil/aleve, caffeinated beverages if you normally have some caffeine don't change your normal intake, FOLDING CHAIR so you aren't standing ALL DAY, twice as much ammo as you think you need (you can always bring the rest home), gun lube, chamber flag for your rifle, zip ties (you never know), a good knife and a good multi-tool.
 
Posts: 13425 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
posted Hide Post
I've got the rifle and plenty of mags.

I have no idea where to start for M14 magazine carriers. Should I use a vest of some sort or something around the waist?

As for pistols, I've got a new P226 Combat with night sights(thanks to 12131) that seems to work nice Smile , a bone stock G17, a G23C with XS big dot sights, a P228, and a GSR-1911 (original production run).

I'm probably most accurate with the 1911 and the P228. I have Kydex holsters for the G17, G23, P228 and a leather High Noon slide-guard holster for the 1911.

I have plenty of spare mags for all of them and have floor plate spacers to use 226 mags in my 228 and G22 mags in my G23C.

I don't have any pistol magazine carriers at all. Recommendations would be appreciated.

As far as a sling for the rifle, all I have now is a Butler Creek neoprene sling but I have a traditional style M14 stock, so I have to use front and rear sling swivels. No QD attachments.

I'm working on getting a better optic in the 1-6x range. For now it just has a fixed 10x SWFA scope. Hoping to get a low power NF ATACR or US Optics B10 for it sometime down the road.


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-01 FFL
www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction).
e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com
 
Posts: 3153 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
Picture of lyman
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not familar with the comps, so pardon if this is a 'dumb' question,

however,

do they run more than one relay?

when I started Service Rifle years ago, I attended a match to see how it went, and then returned the next month and helped out (I know the RO) on the first relay, and participated in the second,

another thing, if the competitors are like they are in Service Rifle, you will likely be able to borrow any gear you may need for that match



www.chesterfieldarmament.com
 
Posts: 7536 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
Picture of Voshterkoff
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I like Esstac pouches.

https://www.esstac.com/7-62
 
Posts: 8392 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Contact Randy Schleining, the discipline director. IIRC, TCGC's matches have an orientation that is usually run on the first Friday of each month.

It's basically a 1-2 stage mini-match. That will allow you shoot in the match and give you an idea of what gear you'll want to have.

Oh yeah: definitely some sort of case. A soft case will be preferred since you'll save on weight (the wheely kind don't always work due to terrain/mud issues). Some way to carry your magazines on your person (chest rig/plate carrier/bandoleer, etc). A pack of some sort to haul your water, snacks, mags, ammo, and misc gear too.
 
Posts: 17563 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
posted Hide Post
Thanks everyone!

LDD,

I emailed Randy and will get signed up. I've got the soft case covered as well as a gear pack.

Tony.


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-01 FFL
www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction).
e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com
 
Posts: 3153 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by benny6:
I've got the rifle and plenty of mags.

I have no idea where to start for M14 magazine carriers. Should I use a vest of some sort or something around the waist?

Typically a belt setup is used. I picked up a lightweight chest rig for some shotgun shell caddies for 3-gun and there are actually a lot of circumstances where I prefer it to a belt setup. It is slightly slower, but much less obtrusive. Most competitors utilize an inner/outer belt combo that allows them to move gear around without removing the inner belt from the belt loops. CR Speed double alpha is a good one. Don't worry too much about buying gear. Get to the match with enough to get you buy and check out what other guys are using. This way you can lay eyes on some stuff and see how it works before spending money and finding out you don't like something.

As for pistols, I've got a new P226 Combat with night sights(thanks to 12131) that seems to work nice Smile , a bone stock G17, a G23C with XS big dot sights, a P228, and a GSR-1911 (original production run).

Take the 226 or the G17. Whichever has the most secure and robust holster.

I'm probably most accurate with the 1911 and the P228. I have Kydex holsters for the G17, G23, P228 and a leather High Noon slide-guard holster for the 1911.

I have plenty of spare mags for all of them and have floor plate spacers to use 226 mags in my 228 and G22 mags in my G23C.

I don't have any pistol magazine carriers at all. Recommendations would be appreciated.

I have a double mag carrier from BladeTech. It has a single tensioning screw so that I can easily turn up or down the friction on the magazines. Inexpensive and it works great. Safariland, and pretty much everyone who makes holsters has options as well. Go kydex, not cloth.

As far as a sling for the rifle, all I have now is a Butler Creek neoprene sling but I have a traditional style M14 stock, so I have to use front and rear sling swivels. No QD attachments.

You may or may not need the sling. Take what you have. Take some zip ties as well.

I'm working on getting a better optic in the 1-6x range. For now it just has a fixed 10x SWFA scope. Hoping to get a low power NF ATACR or US Optics B10 for it sometime down the road.

The 10X is not ideal for a carbine match, but you can use it and you will get through it. Ask to see other competitors low powered scopes. This will help you make a decision. There really is something in every price range now for a 1-4/5/6/8. You will be hampered a bit on close range target arrays with a 10x scope but you may find the advantage on longer distance targets helps out a bit. You may want to practice a bit, rolling your rifle over to a 45 degree angle and shooting just by sighting along the barrel at targets from 5-15 yards. Or if you have a method of attaching something, there are some offset irons sights that you can use.
 
Posts: 13425 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think about it this way: What would I need/want/be willing to lug around if I had to use my rifle to fight through the next 6 hours?

Add a rifle case (for practical and safety reasons) and you're good to go. I'm not saying prepare for a six-hour firefight, no one can carry that kind of ammunition. OTOH, trying to stuff four magazines in your back jeans pockets is going to come to a predictably tragic end when you start running and gunning.

Water, and a good load bearing system that fits your body and engagement style will definitely pay off.

I know enough about M1As/M14s to be dangerous, but I do know the AR platform pretty well. I carry an extra bolt and firing pin (not bolt carrier) because I've seen Colt AR bolts snap in matches, right at the cam pin hole. If your bolt goes down, your rifle is out of the fight. I don't know if there is a part that is analogous to an AR bolt in an M1A, but that's also something to keep in your truck (or in my case, the pistol grip). Given the number of ARs, it's more likely (and it has happened) that I'll been called on to fix someone else's AR. But since you have an M1A shop, having a "field grade" spare parts kit around wouldn't' hurt.

I haven't been in a while, due to changes in life circumstances, but I hope to start back up this summer.

Be prepared for dust or mud. Always one or the other. Oh yeah, kneepads (and sometimes elbow pads) are definitely recommended. Having functioning knees is a good thing, no matter what your age is.
 
Posts: 17563 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by lyman:
not familar with the comps, so pardon if this is a 'dumb' question,

however,

do they run more than one relay?

Typically shooters are grouped into squads of 10-20 people. If you are up to shoot, on deck, or in the hole, you can take your time to get ready. Otherwise the rest of the shooters in the squad help with target reset and everyone rotates through.

when I started Service Rifle years ago, I attended a match to see how it went, and then returned the next month and helped out (I know the RO) on the first relay, and participated in the second,

another thing, if the competitors are like they are in Service Rifle, you will likely be able to borrow any gear you may need for that match

Yes, this is the case in USPSA and 3-gun. I have handed my shotgun and rifle to competitors who had a gun go down on them on a prior stage. A few times I have lent out guns to someone so they could finish an entire match. My only caveat in this is that they must be using factory ammo.
 
Posts: 13425 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
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You could take your Franken Socom of course but you could also take that AR that you just put an ACOG on.

I like a good fixed 10x scope for a lot of purposes but an ACOG is just purpose built for these kind of matches.

Or throw that red dot back on the Socom that you had pictured in your build thread. Or go iron sights.


Most of all have fun!!!!
 
Posts: 13425 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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First I have never been to a match where everyone didn't bend over backwards to help a first timer. Equipment and advice. The sole exception to that is ammo as not everyone has something you can use. So bring way more of that than you officially need. Sometimes there is also an opportunity after the fact to use some of it. You didn't get too many answers but I prefer the bladetech kydex mag holders with teclok for a pistol and the ITW Fastmag for the bigger 30 cal mags (double check size as I use them for a SCAR not an M14). On a real gunbelt (I use wilderness). I have both a much more extensive vest setup and a belt setup, but for this you will probably like the belt more initially as for sure you are going prone and the vest can be a PIA on that till you figure out where to put stuff so something doesn't poke in the wrong spot (I normally use it for tactical matches where its all move and shoot). Soft case, chamber flags, mags and extra ammo are all you really need in my experience. Human comforts in a back pack are winners (especially water and snacks).
Most of this you have above in the various lists.
have fun.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 7715 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Expert308
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by benny6:
I've got the rifle and plenty of mags.

I have no idea where to start for M14 magazine carriers. Should I use a vest of some sort or something around the waist?

As for pistols, I've got a new P226 Combat with night sights(thanks to 12131) that seems to work nice Smile , a bone stock G17, a G23C with XS big dot sights, a P228, and a GSR-1911 (original production run).

I'm probably most accurate with the 1911 and the P228. I have Kydex holsters for the G17, G23, P228 and a leather High Noon slide-guard holster for the 1911.

I have plenty of spare mags for all of them and have floor plate spacers to use 226 mags in my 228 and G22 mags in my G23C.

I don't have any pistol magazine carriers at all. Recommendations would be appreciated.

As far as a sling for the rifle, all I have now is a Butler Creek neoprene sling but I have a traditional style M14 stock, so I have to use front and rear sling swivels. No QD attachments.

I'm working on getting a better optic in the 1-6x range. For now it just has a fixed 10x SWFA scope. Hoping to get a low power NF ATACR or US Optics B10 for it sometime down the road.

The PR matches at Tri-County are strictly rifle. They don't use pistols unless you're talking about the 3-gun or (maybe?) Tactical matches, but those are different match directors. Check the newsletter or the club website for names if you're interested in those.

A sling is pretty much useless in TCGC's PR matches. With the exception of the annual sniper match (which I think was this month), distances are 300 yards and under so just about any optic will work, although an RDS gets to be a pretty crude sighting arrangement that far out.
 
Posts: 5645 | Location: Portland, OR | Registered: February 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The most important thing you need in any match is a solid working knowledge of your rifle.
- Given your targets will be at various distances, knowing the holdovers/unders or dialing for elevation, plus windage effects on smaller targets or longer distance targets.
- Knowing your ammo and its flight ballistics, which goes with the previous point.
- A solid working knowledge of mag changes.
- Ability to eliminate ammo and magazine jams while under the clock.

You likely won't be shooting from a concrete bench with a lead sled. You must be comfortable with standing/kneeling/sitting positions, probably unsupported prone, and shooting from multiple types of barriers -- barrels, window ledges, V-tac walls, barrels, hay bales, tires, fence posts, logs, car hoods, truck beds, etc.

You will likely be under the clock, with penalty points for not engaging targets properly. Targets closer than 100 yards will likely be paper, with A/B/C/D scoring zones. You must understand the scoring rules and be comfortable that you can engage said zones successfully with a reasonably small number of rounds. Targets beyond 100 yards will likely be steel, most likely one hit to score, then move on.

A fixed 10x scope will be nice for the longer targets, especially if they are small. The 10x scope will be a handful if you have to engage multiple targets at short distances, especially if the targets aren't right next to each other. I believe your 10x scope has focus/parallax, which you will use for shorter targets.

Honestly, your 223 AR-15 is likely a better rifle for this type of match. Less recoil and higher capacity magazines are primary considerations. The ACOG should work OK, too.

Most people carry way too much crap to and in matches. There's little need for uber tactical gear, carriers, and clothing. Sure, they're nice, but your skills will be the primary performance limiting factor for a long time. I shot my first rifle matches wearing jeans, and stuffed extra magazines in back pockets or jacket pockets. Yeah, I wasted a second or three in magazine changes, but I wasted 10 or 20 (or more!) seconds by not finding targets, not hitting targets, and not understanding the course of fire.

If your gun goes down in a stage -- unless it's a quick fix of un-jamming rounds or magazine -- yer done for that stage. There's no time to fix crap that broke. Maybe if you have multiple stages with lots of time in between, you can fix something. But in reality, if something big breaks, you're going home. So...bring a rifle that has enough mileage on it to know that it works, make certain it's clean & lubed, bring ammo that isn't finicky, and leave your gazillion-item tool kit and spare parts at home. Now if it can be fixed with tightening a screw or nut, or a new part can be swapped in and out quickly, maybe that's worth while bringing along and keeping in the car.

A good magazine carrier or two that attaches to your every day belt is a good place to start for gear. I have used High Speed Gear's mag carriers for years, and they are my standard for multiple types of matches and multiple types of firearms.
 
Posts: 5923 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
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I have actually gotten to the point where I just bring a spare rifle and handgun to 3 gun matches. If something breaks I would just grab the backup. I have never had a gun go down mechanically, but it is peace of mind.

I do bring along some simple tools. Screwdriver set. Multitool. But it stays in the truck, I don't carry it around with me.
 
Posts: 13425 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
posted Hide Post
Cool. I’ll bring a spare rifle and off the shelf ammo. I’ll at least pick up some belt mounted mag carriers.

Tony.


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-01 FFL
www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction).
e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com
 
Posts: 3153 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One last thing, and this is a match specific rule to PR at TCGC: check your ammunition with a magnet, for steel cores before bringing it to the match.

You will be DQ'd if you bring steel-core ammunition, because to shreds the targets and targets are expensive. It also pockmarks the targets making ricochets back into the shooting positions more likely.

I won't relate the reasons for why this rule exists here, but it's not theoretical and there is at least one member who lost his membership for repeatedly violating this rule.
 
Posts: 17563 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by benny6:
Cool. I’ll bring a spare rifle and off the shelf ammo. I’ll at least pick up some belt mounted mag carriers.

Tony.



One will be enough for AR mags. Maybe two if you use the M14. I am not kidding when I say that it wouldn't bother me if I forgot my rifle mag carrier for a 3 gun match. They are easy to snatch from a back pocket. Pistol mags are more crucial to have carriers for.

I take plugs and muffs both. Electronic earpro turned all the way up with plugs underneath helps to hear range officer commands and brings the noise of rifles with muzzle brakes down to a safe level.

Bring sun glasses as well as shooting glasses that offer high contrast. Sunglasses aren't great on a cloudy day.
 
Posts: 13425 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
One last thing, and this is a match specific rule to PR at TCGC: check your ammunition with a magnet, for steel cores before bringing it to the match.

You will be DQ'd if you bring steel-core ammunition, because to shreds the targets and targets are expensive. It also pockmarks the targets making ricochets back into the shooting positions more likely.

I won't relate the reasons for why this rule exists here, but it's not theoretical and there is at least one member who lost his membership for repeatedly violating this rule.


Good precaution.


Bimettalic ammo like Wolf and Tula also fail this magnet test. They don't technically have a steel core but they have steel in the jacket. All ammo which attracts a magnet has been banned from all of the matches that I have attended.
 
Posts: 13425 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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